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Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

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Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#21

Post by hyperhello »

likeclockwork wrote: post #20
hyperhello wrote: post #17

I don't think Spatial Finder is as useful as it once was. The reason is that these web interfaces block the whole screen, so I generally need to move the browser to the side, beep open a finder window, drag the file in, move the browser back, etc. What I would really like to have back from those days is to drag a folder to the bottom of the screen and have it turned into a little tab, so I can have a "CS602" tab for…

Move the browser to the side? I can never understand why anyone would want to manually shuffle windows around as a disorganized stack. From my perspective the desktop metaphor UX was obsolete the moment it was conceived of. All anyone has to do is look at the physical desks of a thousand random people and it should be immediately obvious how little value there is in recreating that chaos.

It made a lot more sense back before every agent in the system had an interest in shipping the org chart and making their piece as cumbersome as possible to increase ad revenue.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#22

Post by NaOH »

hyperhello wrote: post #17

I don't think Spatial Finder is as useful as it once was. The reason is that these web interfaces block the whole screen, so I generally need to move the browser to the side, beep open a finder window, drag the file in, move the browser back, etc. What I would really like to have back from those days is to drag a folder to the bottom of the screen and have it turned into a little tab, so I can have a "CS602" tab for…

On the Mac it works to start dragging a file from one place and, while keeping the dragged file selected with the mouse/trackpad, using Command-Tab to switch to another application. If that’s the Finder, once there Spring-loaded Folders can be activated/navigated while retaining the selected file.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#23

Post by krackers »

The love for the spatial finder is the one thing I've never understood. It seems to fall apart when you work with a non-trivial number of files. For someone who has grown up comfortable with the abstractions of files and filesystems, what advantages do you get with this "spatial" metaphor, compared to just working directly with the hierarchy (e.g. list view or miller columns)?

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#24

Post by krackers »

jccc wrote: post #15

> Only folders inside the Documents folder are affected. That's quite a caveat. The reason for it is: > size and position are stored in a hidden .framedata.json file in that folder. When a folder is opened, this file is used to restore its state. Couldn't this information be stored centrally in the user's home for any folders opened/moved/sized, avoiding this limitation?

There's already a ds_store file littered around, and presumably these must be backwards compatible. So if the format were reverse engineered (maybe it already is) you could probably stuff in some data in there.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#25

Post by kstrauser »

jccc wrote: post #15

> Only folders inside the Documents folder are affected. That's quite a caveat. The reason for it is: > size and position are stored in a hidden .framedata.json file in that folder. When a folder is opened, this file is used to restore its state. Couldn't this information be stored centrally in the user's home for any folders opened/moved/sized, avoiding this limitation?

I don’t like littering the filesystem with these crumbs, especially when the folders are synced with iCloud so you have two machines with possibly different screen sizes arguing about the saved location. I’d much rather store everything in a single SQLite file.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#26

Post by MontyCarloHall »

krackers wrote: post #23

The love for the spatial finder is the one thing I've never understood. It seems to fall apart when you work with a non-trivial number of files. For someone who has grown up comfortable with the abstractions of files and filesystems, what advantages do you get with this "spatial" metaphor, compared to just working directly with the hierarchy (e.g. list view or miller columns)?

You're right -- a lot of people who yearn for the spatial Finder don't remember how many fewer files/folders we had in the past, with a lot less hierarchy.

But for those who loved the spatial Finder and did indeed have nontrivial numbers of files, well, some people just have exceptional visual memory. Think of those who have thousands of books in their house with seemingly loose-to-no organization, yet can quickly retrieve any volume. Or cooks with pantries that seem to lack any rhyme or reason, yet they can immediately find any ingredient.

The one person I know who loved the classic Mac OS spatial Finder and dealt with nontrivial numbers of files worked exactly like that. Their files were organized in haphazard piles across an incredibly cluttered desktop and a handful of folders, yet they could always track down what they needed. Their brain was essentially a flat key->value store that mapped files -> screen coordinates. It didn't map files -> filenames (lots of "memo_1.doc"), and it certainly had no notion of hierarchical keys.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#27

Post by therein »

p_ing wrote: post #2

While the Finder really sucks, this is jarring. I just wish the Finder remembered the view type (List, Icon, etc), but jumping the window size all around is difficult to look at and may block other elements (windows, desktop) I do want to see.

I just wish Finder was able to remember that I want the "Desktop" entry on the sidebar. I go to preferences and add it back and it forgets that I want it there all the time. It is annoying bugs like this that made me conclude, Apple will never recover in terms of software quality.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#28

Post by k2enemy »

leakycap wrote: post #7

I still use a Mac OS 9.2.2 based machine as my second brain, as no other file system I've used works like the human memory in the same way the spatial Finder does. Great job bringing something similar to the modern Finder!

Cool! Are you using an emulator for that or an old mac? I'd be interested in hearing more if you've written it up somewhere.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#29

Post by leakycap »

k2enemy wrote: post #28
leakycap wrote: post #7

I still use a Mac OS 9.2.2 based machine as my second brain, as no other file system I've used works like the human memory in the same way the spatial Finder does. Great job bringing something similar to the modern Finder!

Cool! Are you using an emulator for that or an old mac? I'd be interested in hearing more if you've written it up somewhere.

I tried emulation but it's convenient to have a separate machine most of the time.

I use a PowerBook G4 Titanium, the 867MHz model. With an SSD, the battery holds 1-2 hours if I'm away from a charger. But I usually keep it at my desk for notes.

Unless someone around me has a keen eye for tech, it is still modern looking enough that I can use it in public or meetings as needed without seeming like I'm pulling out a Windows 2000-era laptop, even though I am.

Re: Show HN: Re-Implementing the macOS Spatial Finder

#30

Post by chuckadams »

NaOH wrote: post #22
hyperhello wrote: post #17

I don't think Spatial Finder is as useful as it once was. The reason is that these web interfaces block the whole screen, so I generally need to move the browser to the side, beep open a finder window, drag the file in, move the browser back, etc. What I would really like to have back from those days is to drag a folder to the bottom of the screen and have it turned into a little tab, so I can have a "CS602" tab for…

On the Mac it works to start dragging a file from one place and, while keeping the dragged file selected with the mouse/trackpad, using Command-Tab to switch to another application. If that’s the Finder, once there Spring-loaded Folders can be activated/navigated while retaining the selected file.

One must-have app I put on any macOS install is Yoink, which gives you a "shelf" you can drag anything onto, then drag out later when convenient. Handy when the target app you're dragging to hasn't been opened yet.
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