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Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

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Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#21

Post by ganonm »

hofrogs wrote: post #2

This is cool. I am wondering if anyone knows if there is a game like Guitar Hero (old playstation game with a custom controller), but for piano and with MIDI input support, something to practice the mechanical skills, preferably with a library of beginner-friendly charts?

It's probably not got the entertainment factor of Guitar Hero, but I'm working on an Android app that connects via Bluetooth/USB MIDI and teaches you sight reading. It starts with individual notes, then progresses to intervals, triads and more complex chords. All of these are exercise based, so you can pick and choose areas to focus on.

The notes are all rendered according to conventional music notation standards as per Elaine Gould's book "Behind Bars". Writing this code was not straightforward, but worth the effort as it's very flexible.

Progress is tracked intelligently, i.e. accuracy and response times are recorded per note, and exercises can be directed towards improving weak spots. This was all borne out of a frustration I had with how long it takes, and how much material is needed to make progress with sight reading skills.

I'm hoping to release it soon (next few months - it's mostly finished), but slightly concerned it's too niche. I guess it will mostly appeal to serious but beginner/intermediate pianists who want to put in the hard yards to develop sight reading abilities to an advanced level.

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#22

Post by ta1243 »

This sounds great in theory. I don't have a midi interface, but using the home row is a great idea.

If I install the hosted .deb and run it though, then press a, s, d with a 5 second wait it's fine. If I push them after half a second, so while the previous note is playing, it goes very wrong. Is that supposed to happen?

a (C plays, wait 1 second, C still plays), s (after C finishes D plays, a long time later).

press a,s,d and it's C for about 3 seconds, then D and E together.

Is this just a bug with my desktop environment?

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#23

Post by yourqiwi »

ganonm wrote: post #21
hofrogs wrote: post #2

This is cool. I am wondering if anyone knows if there is a game like Guitar Hero (old playstation game with a custom controller), but for piano and with MIDI input support, something to practice the mechanical skills, preferably with a library of beginner-friendly charts?

It's probably not got the entertainment factor of Guitar Hero, but I'm working on an Android app that connects via Bluetooth/USB MIDI and teaches you sight reading. It starts with individual notes, then progresses to intervals, triads and more complex chords. All of these are exercise based, so you can pick and choose areas to focus on. The notes are all rendered according to conventional music notation standards as…

Very interested in your app. I have had great success learning languages with flashcards / SRS, and I want a "smart" way to learn sight reading when I start learning piano.

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#24

Post by Almondsetat »

rjh29 wrote: post #17
brightmood wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's something most piano teachers advise AGAINST. But I am of the opinion that anything that makes you play the instrument works.

Honestly reddit is so fucking tiring. If you don't have a piano teacher 3x a week you'll never learn? Huh? Most famous pop piano players learned by themselves just noodling, and they have bad technique, but they still amaze. Same with guitar. Anyone who's super good at an instrument is going to get there however.

First of all: they noodled by themselves, i.e. they gained their own intimacy with the instrument, which is something you cannot teach but only explore on your own. Secondly, you don't know if they didn't have any teachers or mentors or players they asked questions to or learned from. "self made" is not really a thing

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#25

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

viccis wrote: post #12
brightmood wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's something most piano teachers advise AGAINST. But I am of the opinion that anything that makes you play the instrument works.

For good reason. Learning fluency reading sheet music is critical. Rocksmith is great, with caveats, but the fact that they, by default, invert the strings compared to tablature conventions on guitar should be proof enough that they are pedagogically terrible without some guidance. The other problem is that their learning technique, in which you start with fewer notes and add in all the notes over time, is not good a…

Yes - the usual comment with these things is that you're not learning notes, you're learning movements.

Scales have specific fingerings and hand movements, including thumb over/under movements at specific locations.

They're not optional extras. They're essential for fluid playing.

More subtly there's also basic finger/hand positioning, which has to be a difficult combination of as-relaxed-as-possible but also firm and precise, so you get fine control over dynamics and timing.

If you don't learn the vocabulary of physical movements, you won't have the physical foundation you need to play notated music properly beyond the very basics.

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#26

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

rjh29 wrote: post #17
brightmood wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's something most piano teachers advise AGAINST. But I am of the opinion that anything that makes you play the instrument works.

Honestly reddit is so fucking tiring. If you don't have a piano teacher 3x a week you'll never learn? Huh? Most famous pop piano players learned by themselves just noodling, and they have bad technique, but they still amaze. Same with guitar. Anyone who's super good at an instrument is going to get there however.

You'd be surprised how many famous pop piano players didn't just have lessons, they had advanced training.

Elton John studied at the Royal Academy of Music. Alicia Keys is classically trained. Lady Gaga had lessons from the age of 4.

Even someone like Vangelis - nominally self-taught, and not a reader or writer - had lessons when he was starting out.

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#28

Post by rs186 »

williamdclt wrote: post #18
bzzzt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's hard to unlearn bad technique. If you play scales wrong you can get stuck progressing and have to start over while suppressing the urge to just play like you always did.

You're right for "serious" learning. But for most people, the alternative is not learning anything at all! The best technique is the one that'll actually make you play the piano

There is no such thing as serious/non-serious learning.

I take weekly music lessons and have been doing that for a decade. After every lesson -- since the very first one -- I am amazed by how many simple things that I get wrong, and how many different areas where I could improve. The teacher just sees/hears that immediately, when you have no idea what you did wrong. And the music just sounds different.

Not only that, the teacher discusses the piece with you, tells you the efficient way to practice (a specific piece or specific passage) etc.

You would probably sound ok to a random stranger, but you quickly hit a bottleneck. You spend a lot of time doing incorrect/inefficient things without knowing it.

$100/hr is expensive, but well worth it.

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#29

Post by 7thaccount »

hofrogs wrote: post #2

This is cool. I am wondering if anyone knows if there is a game like Guitar Hero (old playstation game with a custom controller), but for piano and with MIDI input support, something to practice the mechanical skills, preferably with a library of beginner-friendly charts?

There's an app called Skoove that seems to do a lot of that. Not really a game, but you put your tablet on your piano and it shows you which keys to hit at the right time and makes sure you do it right. That's pretty much the same thing almost.

Re: Show HN: Piano Trainer – Learn piano scales, chords and more using MIDI

#30

Post by khaki54 »

hofrogs wrote: post #2

This is cool. I am wondering if anyone knows if there is a game like Guitar Hero (old playstation game with a custom controller), but for piano and with MIDI input support, something to practice the mechanical skills, preferably with a library of beginner-friendly charts?

Simply Piano and Yousician are pretty close to Rocksmith. A little more focused on teaching though. You can plug in midi or USB to your keyboard or it can use a mic to do note tracking
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