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Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

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Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this in another comment, but I know from experience that it's impossible to reliably differentiate bots from humans over a network. And since the right to automate browsers has survived repeated legal challenges, all vendors can do is make it incrementally harder to weed out the low sophistication actors. This actually creates an evergreen problem that companies need to overcome, and our paid version will…

Don't take this the wrong way, but this is the kind of unethical behavior that our industry should frown upon IMO. I view this kind of thing on the same level as DDoS-as-a-Service companies. I wish your company the kind of success it deserves.

Why is it unethical when courts have repeatedly affirmed browser automation to be legal and permitted?

If anything, it's unethical for companies to dictate how their customers can access services they've already paid for. If I'm paying hundreds of thousands per year for software, shouldn't I be allowed to build automations over it? Instead, many enterprise products go to great lengths to restrict this kind of usage.

I led the team that dealt with DDoS and other network level attacks at Robinhood so I know how harmful they are. But I also got to see many developers using our services in creative ways that could have been a whole new product (example: https://github.com/sanko/Robinhood).

Instead we had to go after these people and shut them down because it wasn't aligned with the company's long term risk profile. It sucked.

That's why we're focused on authenticated agents for B2B use cases, not the kind of malicious bots you might be thinking of.

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#22
post #10

I do not understand what this actually is. Any difference between Browserbase and what you’re building? Also, curious why your unstructured idea did not pan out?

Looking at their docs, it seems that with Browserbase you would still have to deploy your Playwright script to a long-running job and manage the infra around that yourself.

Our approach is a bit different. With finic you just write the script. We handle the entire job deployment and scaling on our end.

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#23
I build browser automation systems with either Playwright or Chrome Extensions. The biggest issue with automating 3rd party websites is knowing when the 3rd party developer pushes changes which break the automation. The way I dealt with that is run a headless browser in the cloud which checks the behavior of the automated site periodically sending emails and sms messages when it breaks.

If you don't already have this feature for your system, I would recommend it.

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I used to be the guy responsible for bot detection at Robinhood so I can tell you firsthand it's impossible to reliably differentiate between humans and machines over a network. So either you accept being automated, or you overcorrect and block legitimate users. I don't think the dead internet theory is true today, but I think it will be true soon. IMO that's actually a good thing, more agents representing us on…

That is some bizarre mental gymnastics to justify the work you've done. What about the rest of us who don't want agents representing us?

If you want to use an agent for scraping/automation, you would need to supply it with auth credentials. So permission is required by default.

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#25

Backed by YC = Not open source. Eventually pressure to exit and hyper scale will take over.

There are quite a few open source YC startups at this point. Our understanding is that:

1. Developer tooling should be open source by default 2. Open source doesn't meaningfully affect revenue/scaling because developers that would use your self-hosted version would build in-house anyway.

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this is the kind of unethical behavior that our industry should frown upon IMO. I view this kind of thing on the same level as DDoS-as-a-Service companies. I wish your company the kind of success it deserves.

Why is it unethical when courts have repeatedly affirmed browser automation to be legal and permitted? If anything, it's unethical for companies to dictate how their customers can access services they've already paid for. If I'm paying hundreds of thousands per year for software, shouldn't I be allowed to build automations over it? Instead, many enterprise products go to great lengths to restrict this kind of usage.…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this is the kind of unethical behavior that our industry should frown upon IMO. I view this kind of thing on the same level as DDoS-as-a-Service companies. I wish your company the kind of success it deserves.

Why is it unethical when courts have repeatedly affirmed browser automation to be legal and permitted? If anything, it's unethical for companies to dictate how their customers can access services they've already paid for. If I'm paying hundreds of thousands per year for software, shouldn't I be allowed to build automations over it? Instead, many enterprise products go to great lengths to restrict this kind of usage.…

> they've already paid for.

That is the crux, rarely is it a service being scraped that they paid for

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#28

I build browser automation systems with either Playwright or Chrome Extensions. The biggest issue with automating 3rd party websites is knowing when the 3rd party developer pushes changes which break the automation. The way I dealt with that is run a headless browser in the cloud which checks the behavior of the automated site periodically sending emails and sms messages when it breaks. If you don't already have this…

That's a great suggestion! Essentially a cron job to check for website changes before your automation runs and possibly breaks.

What does this check look like for you? Do you just diff the html to see if there are any changes?

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#29

I wonder if there are hidden observality problems with scraping with ideal solutions of a different shape than a dashboard. Feels like sentry connection or other common alert monitoring solutions would combine well with the LLM proposed changes and help trams react more quickly to pipeline problems.

We do support sentry. Finic projects are poetry scripts so you can `poetry add` any observability library you need.

Re: Show HN: Finic – Open source platform for building browser automations

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it unethical when courts have repeatedly affirmed browser automation to be legal and permitted? If anything, it's unethical for companies to dictate how their customers can access services they've already paid for. If I'm paying hundreds of thousands per year for software, shouldn't I be allowed to build automations over it? Instead, many enterprise products go to great lengths to restrict this kind of usage.…

> they've already paid for. That is the crux, rarely is it a service being scraped that they paid for

Depends on the use case. Lots of hospitals and banks use RPA to automate routine processes on their EHRs and systems of record, because these kinds of software typically don't have APIs available. Or if they do, they're very limited.

Playwright and other browser automation scripts are a much more powerful version of RPA but they do require some knowledge of code. But there are more and more developers every year and code just gets more powerful every year. So I think it's a good bet to make that browser automation in code will replace RPA altogether some day.

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