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Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

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Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#21

Post by shmerl »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #20
shmerl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Further, it's not even clear that this kind of program is practically possible on Wayland. It's pretty clear. But some are too stuck up to even research it or be part of shaping it. Which is common among legacy vendors who very rarely even care to communicate with Wayland developers about their needs. Those who aren't stuck up deal with it just fine (OBS Studio for example).

Lol - it's "stuck up" to prefer software that works? If you want people to switch, it'd help to actually cover their use cases. Showing up to proclaim software "obsolete" when the supposed replacement literally doesn't support the features in use, then... what, claiming we're bad people for not contributing to Wayland? is the cultural part of why people don't like Wayland. (In a distant second place behind the techni…

Stuck up means they don't care to collaborate. If they don't, how would anyone know about their specific needs? Those who don't have this dinosaur mentality do work with Wayland developers and their needs are addressed faster. Others learn the hard way but also usually like to complain that "things don't work".

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#22

Post by alpaca128 »

bitwize wrote: post #18
GuB-42 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is "when?". Wayland is 15 years old, it already had a lot of time to "get better". So today, in most cases, I'd say X11 is still the way to go, it just works better. When Wayland will get better and apps start supporting Wayland more than they support X11, it will be the time to switch, but at the glacial pace Wayland advances, chances are that your current system will be obsolete when it will happen. It…

> The question is "when?". Wayland is 15 years old, it already had a lot of time to "get better". So today, in most cases, I'd say X11 is still the way to go, it just works better. If you run more than one monitor with different DPI, Wayland is the only choice. If you want to do HDR, Wayland will be the only choice. > When Wayland will get better and apps start supporting Wayland more than they support X11, it will b…

I tried Wayland (Fedora 39) on two screens and the experience was so terrible and full of bugs I gave up after less than a day. New windows open at random locations and screens no matter what's focused, UI scaling of a window is sometimes wrong for its screen, at least once an hour the screens just go blank for a couple seconds etc.

For me it's definitely not usable yet, let alone the "only choice"

> All of the effort is going into Wayland

Yes, because it's still work in progress. And at some point in the future that effort will have paid off, but that's not now and definitely not a few years ago.

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#23

Post by bitwize »

alpaca128 wrote: post #22
bitwize wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is "when?". Wayland is 15 years old, it already had a lot of time to "get better". So today, in most cases, I'd say X11 is still the way to go, it just works better. If you run more than one monitor with different DPI, Wayland is the only choice. If you want to do HDR, Wayland will be the only choice. > When Wayland will get better and apps start supporting Wayland more than they support X11, it will b…

I tried Wayland (Fedora 39) on two screens and the experience was so terrible and full of bugs I gave up after less than a day. New windows open at random locations and screens no matter what's focused, UI scaling of a window is sometimes wrong for its screen, at least once an hour the screens just go blank for a couple seconds etc. For me it's definitely not usable yet, let alone the "only choice" > All of the effor…

> Yes, because it's still work in progress.

And because the X11 maintainers decided that Wayland is the way forward and X11 will simply not get new display features like HDR.

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#24

Post by jrm4 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #14
GuB-42 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is "when?". Wayland is 15 years old, it already had a lot of time to "get better". So today, in most cases, I'd say X11 is still the way to go, it just works better. When Wayland will get better and apps start supporting Wayland more than they support X11, it will be the time to switch, but at the glacial pace Wayland advances, chances are that your current system will be obsolete when it will happen. It…

Further, it's not even clear that this kind of program is practically possible on Wayland. At best, that's yet another new protocol someone would need to invent that only some compositors would implement.

This was the question I came to ask. I've been a Wayland avoider because for me there was nothing "broken" to be fixed.

Occasionally, I've enjoying playing around with window management and hacking with WMs, using stuff like this and/or xdotool and wmctrl.

I was curious as to what this might be like in Wayland-land? Do tools like this even exist?

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#25

Post by shmerl »

jrm4 wrote: post #24
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, it's not even clear that this kind of program is practically possible on Wayland. At best, that's yet another new protocol someone would need to invent that only some compositors would implement.

This was the question I came to ask. I've been a Wayland avoider because for me there was nothing "broken" to be fixed. Occasionally, I've enjoying playing around with window management and hacking with WMs, using stuff like this and/or xdotool and wmctrl. I was curious as to what this might be like in Wayland-land? Do tools like this even exist?

Yes: https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#26

Post by alpaca128 »

bitwize wrote: post #23
alpaca128 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried Wayland (Fedora 39) on two screens and the experience was so terrible and full of bugs I gave up after less than a day. New windows open at random locations and screens no matter what's focused, UI scaling of a window is sometimes wrong for its screen, at least once an hour the screens just go blank for a couple seconds etc. For me it's definitely not usable yet, let alone the "only choice" > All of the effor…

> Yes, because it's still work in progress. And because the X11 maintainers decided that Wayland is the way forward and X11 will simply not get new display features like HDR.

What I care about are the existing features. Bugs don't look any better in HDR. I'm sure it'll all be fixed sooner or later but until then it's a downgrade for me, and I just don't get this "best time to switch" sentiment about an unfinished component that a user shouldn't even need to know about.

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#27

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

shmerl wrote: post #25
jrm4 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the question I came to ask. I've been a Wayland avoider because for me there was nothing "broken" to be fixed. Occasionally, I've enjoying playing around with window management and hacking with WMs, using stuff like this and/or xdotool and wmctrl. I was curious as to what this might be like in Wayland-land? Do tools like this even exist?

Yes: https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool

>> Occasionally, I've enjoying playing around with window management and hacking with WMs, using stuff like this and/or xdotool and wmctrl.

Ydotool readme:

> Currently implemented command(s):

> type - Type a string

> key - Press keys

> mousemove - Move mouse pointer to absolute position

> click - Click on mouse buttons

So... No.

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#28

Post by epoxia »

jrm4 wrote: post #24
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, it's not even clear that this kind of program is practically possible on Wayland. At best, that's yet another new protocol someone would need to invent that only some compositors would implement.

This was the question I came to ask. I've been a Wayland avoider because for me there was nothing "broken" to be fixed. Occasionally, I've enjoying playing around with window management and hacking with WMs, using stuff like this and/or xdotool and wmctrl. I was curious as to what this might be like in Wayland-land? Do tools like this even exist?

My understanding is that "window managing" tools like this are not possible due to how wayland handles information. Pro: More secure than x11, Con: I can't use wayland. Aside from investing a lot of time learning how to use a tiling wm I dont see how I'm going to get over my addiction to minimizing only the active window. ( xdotool windowminimize $(xdotool getactivewindow) )

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#29

Post by boomskats »

o11c wrote: post #7
shmerl wrote: post #6

Kind of obsolete in the age of Wayland.

Wayland is still buggier than a swamp. At this point they're no longer showstopping bugs, but if you don't want to be constantly annoyed by little things not working, X11 is still the way to go.

Have you ever tried running it with a non-Nvidia GPU?

Re: Show HN: Bonk, a command-line tool for X11 window management

#30

Post by shmerl »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #27
shmerl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool

>> Occasionally, I've enjoying playing around with window management and hacking with WMs, using stuff like this and/or xdotool and wmctrl. Ydotool readme: > Currently implemented command(s): > type - Type a string > key - Press keys > mousemove - Move mouse pointer to absolute position > click - Click on mouse buttons So... No.

For what xdotool does - pretty much a substitute. For anything else you need a compositor specific tool.

KWin scripts or something might work for KDE: https://develop.kde.org/docs/plasma/kwin/

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