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Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or

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21–30 of 146 posts

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#21

Are you planning to add support for the missing standard tags like img and table (both very useful for pdf rendering)?

Yes, definitely. In the meantime, you can still use this to get the intrinsic sizes of cells to create rows and columns, and you can use an empty inline-block and paint the image where it's laid out. I'll put something in the examples/ directory soon.

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#22

This is an amazing piece of work. Thanks for making this open-source. The default way of generating beautiful PDFs in the backend these days is, running a headless browser and using browser APIs to turn HTML/CSS into PDFs. And apparently, it's a bit costly running instances of browser in the server and scale it properly for huge workloads. This is literally a game changer. Now it's possible to design PDFs using HTML/…

As an aside its amazing how far the web has come, where the best way to make pretty pdf documents is to literally run a web browser on the server. This would have been so unthinkable back in the 90s & 2000s

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#23

I worry that this sort of technology is going to lead to webapps that aren't really what we've grown to think of as "the web" but which will instead be closer to a VNC window where you just see pixels and can't interact with anything or see how stuff works in devtools.

Accessibility features would need to be added to canvases before that reality's possible, so we've got a ways to go yet before we need to worry too much about that.

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#24

I worry that this sort of technology is going to lead to webapps that aren't really what we've grown to think of as "the web" but which will instead be closer to a VNC window where you just see pixels and can't interact with anything or see how stuff works in devtools.

Is it bad though? This is of course a rethoric question, I don't know myself if I think it's good or bad, yet.

What I'm thinking is: there's been soo much discussion around "we have corrupted the Web", "Web standards were never made to build apps on", etc. with sometimes good and sometimes really bad arguments.

If we can build viewports in canvas that behave more like just a desktop environment where apps can be built, maybe that could be good? It could mean a split between the informational web and the "apps on the browser" paradigm, and in a ideal scenario this could make things simpler and more organized for everyone? Or it could just mean more work, more standards, more rupture and more siloing. Honestly don't know.

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#25

I would be very much interested in articles on how to write a CSS layout engine from scratch

Not exactly what you are looking for, but if you haven't seen it, firefox has some really interesting blog posts about how their css engine works, e.g. https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/08/inside-a-super-fast-css-en... that i personally found really enlightening

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#26
post #23

I worry that this sort of technology is going to lead to webapps that aren't really what we've grown to think of as "the web" but which will instead be closer to a VNC window where you just see pixels and can't interact with anything or see how stuff works in devtools.

Accessibility features would need to be added to canvases before that reality's possible, so we've got a ways to go yet before we need to worry too much about that.

traditionally, lack of accessibility has unfortunately not held back people's use of tech, see Flash and most SPAs

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#28
post #15
post #9

why not ship a desktop application at this point with support for a special schema? i can understand the abuse for server side rendering, but at this poit you pretty much have a bad browser engine. running inside a 2d hack in a browser engine. sigh.

Why re-invent the wheel with a special schema when CSS2 is a solid standard and widely understood? Is there no room in the world for rendering implementations between nothing at all and full-spec web browser with all the bells and whistles?

I'm actually advocating against re-inventing the wheel (insider another wheel, no less)

you can still follow css spec if you want. just get a better environment than a canvas.

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#29

I worry that this sort of technology is going to lead to webapps that aren't really what we've grown to think of as "the web" but which will instead be closer to a VNC window where you just see pixels and can't interact with anything or see how stuff works in devtools.

Is it bad though? This is of course a rethoric question, I don't know myself if I think it's good or bad, yet. What I'm thinking is: there's been soo much discussion around "we have corrupted the Web", "Web standards were never made to build apps on", etc. with sometimes good and sometimes really bad arguments. If we can build viewports in canvas that behave more like just a desktop environment where apps can be buil…

It wouldn't be bad if we were sure it wasn't going to be abused to make apps where ads cannot be blocked, consent extortion pop-up cannot be removed, content cannot be copy-pasted, etc. unfortunately, this is the way this industry is always going, so there's good reason to be scared.

(It's also terrible for accessibility, for both disabled people or just regular users who expect to be able to navigate with the keyboard for instance, unless the framework re-implement everything itself, which I doubt)

Re: Show HN: Dropflow, a CSS layout engine for node or <canvas>

#30

I worry that this sort of technology is going to lead to webapps that aren't really what we've grown to think of as "the web" but which will instead be closer to a VNC window where you just see pixels and can't interact with anything or see how stuff works in devtools.

I don't see this, or any other equivalent effort, taking off. It's neat, but CSS layout is a small part of the overall problem. Even setting side accessibility, which is a massive undertaking in and of itself, you have text rendering.

To get an idea of what you'd have to emulate, here are some (not even all) issues related to rendering text: https://faultlore.com/blah/text-hates-you/

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