Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

mailready.info

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#21

Post by jeroenhd »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #14

> What happens if I dont comply? >You get marked as spam? And that's probably the best case scenario. Your email may not get delivered. My best friend works at a large ISP specifically on their email transport system. They discard 97% of the emails they receive. That's straight into the bit bucket, not to your Junk Mail folder.

I have seen something similar at a smaller ISP, but the silently discarded email usually came from domains with bad SPF setups.

Really infuriating, because customers would not believe that this wasn't a problem on our end, it was the other side telling us to discard their email!

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#22

Post by jeroenhd »

TylerE wrote: post #11
matt_heimer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way as always, image loading. If image URLs are unique and external then you can track their opening. Not all users will allow it so you also track clicking on in email links.

Doesn't just about every mail service proxy, and often preemptively fetch those?

Not every service, buy many of them do.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#23

Post by jeroenhd »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #6

"Send reconfirmation emails to people that have not interacted with your email (no opens or clicks)" How can I check opens? I'm not aware of any reliable way to check this. Mail clients not loading pixels means the software is unaware of opens?

I personally tend to enable delivery/read receipts for new email domains. Big providers will often send you a notification for delivery at least, and prompt for the read receipt.

You can also track your DMARC statistics and figure out what mail domains tend to not deliver your email.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#24

Post by JohnFen »

em-bee wrote: post #16

this doesn't seem to help for private email. i want to send email to my friends at google. yet google blocks delivery. this is not any kind of business or commercial messages. but from my private account to my friends account. SPF and DMARC check out and surely private emails should not need unsubscribe headers. so your site says everything is fine. then why does google still reject my emails?

My social group has been shifting away from using the internet-wide email system to using a private one just among us that we run. It works well in my group because most of the emails we send/receive are amongst ourselves anyway.

All of these antispam measures are fighting a losing battle -- every one of them reduces the utility of email and are only (barely) acceptable because spammers reduce the utility of email to an even greater degree.

By running our own email system that doesn't interconnect with the internet's, email has become actually useful again.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#25

Post by StayTrue »

em-bee wrote: post #16

this doesn't seem to help for private email. i want to send email to my friends at google. yet google blocks delivery. this is not any kind of business or commercial messages. but from my private account to my friends account. SPF and DMARC check out and surely private emails should not need unsubscribe headers. so your site says everything is fine. then why does google still reject my emails?

IP-based rejection may be the answer. You may not be doing anything problematic but if your IP neighbors misbehave, your IP will be blacklisted too.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#26

Post by TylerE »

jeroenhd wrote: post #22
TylerE wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't just about every mail service proxy, and often preemptively fetch those?

Not every service, buy many of them do.

I'm quite sure GMail does... which is basically the entire internet as far as mail delivery.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#27

Post by em-bee »

jeroenhd wrote: post #19
em-bee wrote: post #16

this doesn't seem to help for private email. i want to send email to my friends at google. yet google blocks delivery. this is not any kind of business or commercial messages. but from my private account to my friends account. SPF and DMARC check out and surely private emails should not need unsubscribe headers. so your site says everything is fine. then why does google still reject my emails?

> then why does google still reject my emails? Multiple options. For example, your IP address may not have a good reputation. This can happen when a previous tennant used your IP address to send spam, but it also happens when you send very little email to Google/Microsoft servers, not giving you the opportunity to build a good reputation. I briefly considered sending my mail server logs to Gmail so I could get regula…

when you send very little email to Google/Microsoft servers, not giving you the opportunity to build a good reputation

this is something i find really frustrating, because, how am i supposed to fix that?

it's a personal server. there simply isn't that much outgoing traffic. and then, because google rejects my emails i have to use a different server to send mails to gmail.

so how exactly would i generate that neessary traffic that unblocks me? (this is kind of a rethorical question, i don't expect a real answer here because i don't believe a real answer exists)

should i write every email twice? from two different senders? i feel that would make the emails even more suspect than making things better.

send fake emails? that would be like sending spam in order to convince google that i am not sending spam.

seems to me that if low traffic is really the reason then there is no hope, and all i can do is to give up, which for now is what i did.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#28

Post by em-bee »

StayTrue wrote: post #25
em-bee wrote: post #16

this doesn't seem to help for private email. i want to send email to my friends at google. yet google blocks delivery. this is not any kind of business or commercial messages. but from my private account to my friends account. SPF and DMARC check out and surely private emails should not need unsubscribe headers. so your site says everything is fine. then why does google still reject my emails?

IP-based rejection may be the answer. You may not be doing anything problematic but if your IP neighbors misbehave, your IP will be blacklisted too.

i am considering that, but it has worked before, and i have this same IP for years now. (i am not 100% certain, but i am pretty sure i already had this same IP when it did work)

anyways, my suggestion here would be that an IP check would be a feature that mailready.info could include.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#29

Post by em-bee »

riedel wrote: post #18
em-bee wrote: post #16

this doesn't seem to help for private email. i want to send email to my friends at google. yet google blocks delivery. this is not any kind of business or commercial messages. but from my private account to my friends account. SPF and DMARC check out and surely private emails should not need unsubscribe headers. so your site says everything is fine. then why does google still reject my emails?

This really getting crazy. My daughter nearly did not get into the swimming course because google just black holes the registration confirmation because my wife's used her Gmail. I really hope that this kind of stuff gets illegal: just taking an email and virtually burning it.

this really sums up my feelings. i have sent emails to people past that i have no other way to reach and never got a reply, and i have no idea if they even got my email.

and the same the other way around. which is one reason why i run my own server.

i always believed that spam filtering must be done at the end user, and noone else has the right to block email from reaching me. in particular the most obvious thing, every address that i send to, should automatically be whitelisted as a valid sender, unless i explicitly mark it as spam. the exceptions should be obvious DMARC/DKIM/SPF violations.

at one point i was even working on my own email server to implement this kind of whitelisting/filtering myself.

Re: Show HN: Mailready – meet the new email deliverability standards

#30

Post by Avamander »

jeroenhd wrote: post #21
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #14

> What happens if I dont comply? >You get marked as spam? And that's probably the best case scenario. Your email may not get delivered. My best friend works at a large ISP specifically on their email transport system. They discard 97% of the emails they receive. That's straight into the bit bucket, not to your Junk Mail folder.

I have seen something similar at a smaller ISP, but the silently discarded email usually came from domains with bad SPF setups. Really infuriating, because customers would not believe that this wasn't a problem on our end, it was the other side telling us to discard their email!

SPF alone is not a reason for discarding a letter.
Post reply on HN