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Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

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Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#21

Post by unphased »

ArtWomb wrote: post #19

Very cool. There are tons of non-Euclidean video game experiments. But this one is actually fun and definitely has potential ;) One possible improvement is to add another degree of freedom for player movement. Being ability to rotate the sphere and see where you are located in relation to the goals would help. And make touch screen play really immersive.

i guess it looks like a sphere but it's hyperbolic space and the opposite "direction" of curving compared to a sphere. But I dig what you're saying, like.. maybe allow us to drag our center of projection around so we can get a sense for the space.

Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#22

Post by Rendello »

ArtWomb wrote: post #19

Very cool. There are tons of non-Euclidean video game experiments. But this one is actually fun and definitely has potential ;) One possible improvement is to add another degree of freedom for player movement. Being ability to rotate the sphere and see where you are located in relation to the goals would help. And make touch screen play really immersive.

One of my favourite games of all time is called Knossu and is also non-Euclidian (edit: this is wrong, see comment below), although it takes a very different approach to confusing the player. The author, Jonathan Whiting, is probably best known for his article "Why I Write Games In C" around here

It seems like the best games throw you in with no context, and let you explore their consistent but mysterious mechanics and worlds

1. https://jonathanwhiting.com/games/knossu/

2. https://jonathanwhiting.com/writing/blog/games_in_c/

Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#23

Post by zenorogue »

Rendello wrote: post #22
ArtWomb wrote: post #19

Very cool. There are tons of non-Euclidean video game experiments. But this one is actually fun and definitely has potential ;) One possible improvement is to add another degree of freedom for player movement. Being ability to rotate the sphere and see where you are located in relation to the goals would help. And make touch screen play really immersive.

One of my favourite games of all time is called Knossu and is also non-Euclidian (edit: this is wrong, see comment below), although it takes a very different approach to confusing the player. The author, Jonathan Whiting, is probably best known for his article "Why I Write Games In C" around here It seems like the best games throw you in with no context, and let you explore their consistent but mysterious mechanics a…

Knossu is cool but not non-Euclidean... It changes topology but its geometry remains Euclidean. Weird connections and non-Euclidean geometry are two very different things.

Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#24

Post by Rendello »

zenorogue wrote: post #23
Rendello wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favourite games of all time is called Knossu and is also non-Euclidian (edit: this is wrong, see comment below), although it takes a very different approach to confusing the player. The author, Jonathan Whiting, is probably best known for his article "Why I Write Games In C" around here It seems like the best games throw you in with no context, and let you explore their consistent but mysterious mechanics a…

Knossu is cool but not non-Euclidean... It changes topology but its geometry remains Euclidean. Weird connections and non-Euclidean geometry are two very different things.

That makes sense, I'd only seen the term in reference to similar games before, I guess I'm not the only one online that was mistaken!

Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#25

Post by zenorogue »

Rendello wrote: post #24
zenorogue wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knossu is cool but not non-Euclidean... It changes topology but its geometry remains Euclidean. Weird connections and non-Euclidean geometry are two very different things.

That makes sense, I'd only seen the term in reference to similar games before, I guess I'm not the only one online that was mistaken!

Indeed, it seems that Antichamber called itself "non-Euclidean" and people did not know what it means and called all games which did something weird to their spaces got called non-Euclidean. We have lots of cool truly non-Euclidean games in development today, so hopefully they will understand it better :)

Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#26

Post by nine_k »

zenorogue wrote: post #23
Rendello wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favourite games of all time is called Knossu and is also non-Euclidian (edit: this is wrong, see comment below), although it takes a very different approach to confusing the player. The author, Jonathan Whiting, is probably best known for his article "Why I Write Games In C" around here It seems like the best games throw you in with no context, and let you explore their consistent but mysterious mechanics a…

Knossu is cool but not non-Euclidean... It changes topology but its geometry remains Euclidean. Weird connections and non-Euclidean geometry are two very different things.

I wold say that being Euclidean requires very plain topology, an equivalent of a plane. Else you can't get Euclidian distance, for example.

By this token, classic Doom is already non-Euclidean because of teleports.

What people often want when they ask for non-Euclidean is a curved space, like, well, the surface of a globe. Or maybe a torus. Or space being infinitely repeated while looking flat (also much like a torus). Some kind of hyperbolic geometry could be fun but likely too mind-boggling.

(The ultimate in non-Euclidean worlds I've seen so far in games is the paradoxical space of Monument Valley.)

Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world

#28

Post by zenorogue »

nine_k wrote: post #26
zenorogue wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knossu is cool but not non-Euclidean... It changes topology but its geometry remains Euclidean. Weird connections and non-Euclidean geometry are two very different things.

I wold say that being Euclidean requires very plain topology, an equivalent of a plane. Else you can't get Euclidian distance, for example. By this token, classic Doom is already non-Euclidean because of teleports. What people often want when they ask for non-Euclidean is a curved space, like, well, the surface of a globe. Or maybe a torus. Or space being infinitely repeated while looking flat (also much like a torus…

Geometry is the curvature of the fabric the space is made of.

Topology is how you sew/glue this fabric.

You can make a cylinder out of flat paper, so it is an Euclidean manifold.

You cannot make a sphere out of flat paper, so it is a non-Euclidean manifold.

Non-Euclidean geometry refers specifically to the geometry, not to the topology. It is not "anything where the distance is not the Euclidean distance" or "anything other than the Euclidean space" or "anything not related to Euclid's proof that there are infinitely many primes". Such a concept would not be useful, because it would be so broad that nothing interesting could be said about it (as you said, it would include Doom levels because of the teleports).

So a cylinder or a flat torus or a space being infinitely repeated are not non-Euclidean geometry. Monument Valley also has no relation to non-Euclidean geometry.

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