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Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

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Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#191
post #34

Is GPL really viable for a web framework? The Free Software Foundation has consistently held that linking to GPL code (not LGPL) is derived work.

tl;dr I do not think that the GPL is suitable to build an open source community around a web framework.

With the current licensing it looks a lot like they are pondering a dual-licensing business: Offer a GPLed version for free and charge for commercial licenses.

Since the product seems to be very promising and since the GPL is not suited for many use-cases (web startups, freelance work for clients and even many inhouse developments), this might actually work.

Being a developer myself, I see nothing wrong with a bunch of other developers wanting to be paid for their work. If this is really how they want to play it, I wish them all the best. (If this really is the case, I find the current copy on their website a bit misleading, though).

On the other hand, if their goal is to establish a vibrant open source community around meteor, then I think they are on the wrong track.

To accomplish that you need to have a low barrier of entry for a) users of your product and b) contributors to your project.

The GPL, in the case of a web-framework that blurs the client-server divide, sets the bar quite high for both groups:

a) Other commenters seem to agree with me that every app developed with a GPL'ed meteor has to be put under GPL as well. The implications alone might drive some people away from using meteor, but even having to think about those things upfront can be discouraging. Some people do not like the GPL, some may not be able to work with it and some may simply want to be able to choose the license for their work themselves.

b) If they are offering a commercial license, it will not be easy for them to accept outside code contributions. They need to establish some legal documents (Contributor Agreements, maybe Copyright Assignments) and a process for accepting contributions. This makes it a lot harder to contribute than simply sending a pull request. They cite the MySQL business model as something they closely studied. MySQL has a particulary bad reputation for not accepting outside contributions. And this is mainly due to their dual-licensing model.

I strongly believe that Ruby on Rails became popular so quickly and still has an active community because of its liberal license (MIT).

Personally I am very excited about meteor and I wish that they reconsider using another license. It does not have to be MIT, even though that is what I would choose, but even LGPL would be better IMHO.

Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#193
A big part of the problem is building the community. Ie the right license and creating a core group that's more than just the employees of one company.

The tech looks great but I think the community is key for this to be adopted rather than anything else.

Rails nailed the community aspect and that's a big reason to its success.

Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#194
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1, what about performance? Does this mean all server will be blocked while doing IO?

No, it says one thread per request, not single-threaded.

sorry. missed that one. Again, I believe multi-threading is not best approach in terms of scalability. Asynchronous io is the secret sauce of node and it distinguishes node from other server side technologies. I think, asynchronous nature doesn't suite well to meteor's approach. I will be appreciated to learn real reason.

Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#196

Hey everyone! The four of us have been working very hard on this for the last six months, and we're excited to finally take the wraps off. Can't wait to hear what you think! We've got a lot more stuff coming over the next few months, and if there are particular things you'd like us to do/prioritize, I'd love to hear about them!

This looks fantastic. I genuinely got giddy watching the screencast! If I were to use Meteor for a partially closed source app earning around $1000 per month, how much could I expect to pay you? From the FAQ: > If the GPL doesn't work for your project, get in touch (contact@meteor.com) and we will write you a commercial license to your specifications.

How is your application distributed? If it's a web app that you run on your own servers, GPL doesn't apply to you (only AGPL would).

Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#197
post #34

Is GPL really viable for a web framework? The Free Software Foundation has consistently held that linking to GPL code (not LGPL) is derived work.

tl;dr I do not think that the GPL is suitable to build an open source community around a web framework. With the current licensing it looks a lot like they are pondering a dual-licensing business: Offer a GPLed version for free and charge for commercial licenses. Since the product seems to be very promising and since the GPL is not suited for many use-cases (web startups, freelance work for clients and even many inho…

Totally agree. I don't mind contributing to their project, but i don't think every developer, client, entrepreneur wants to open source their code.

Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#198
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the "read" side of things, you control what data is exposed to each subscription, and you'll be able to base access on authentication. The client doesn't get a direct database connection, but rather a live-updating subset (or arbitrary function, in the general case) of the database. The rationale is that clients typically end up doing sorting and filtering on subsets of the database anyway, as they get more sophis…

This still doesn't sound like a straight forward answer. I think there is a justifiable cause for trying to minimize the role of the server but controlling the operating environment of the data itself is the essence of modern web security. There would need to be some sort of public key system for authentication, but in the end you are still compromising your data if the client gets hacked. There would have to be a da…

Not sure if Mongo has this feature, but in many classic SQL databases, per-user views can be created which act like tables, but are actually "the user's view into that table".

This would mean creating database user accounts on the fly for people, but it would resolve this problem (as long as the views are secure).

Re: Show HN: Meteor, a realtime JavaScript framework

#199
post #42

This is a very uncool way to install something: $ curl install.meteor.com | /bin/sh

I've got just the tool for you! https://github.com/sstephenson/gosh

That's all fine and dandy until people start MitM injecting malicious shell scripts with 'YES' as their first line...
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