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Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

warp.dev

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Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#191
post #20

Wanted to give it a shot but got disappointed when I launched it and the following happened: - Outgoing request to googleapis.com - Outgoing request to segment.io - Outgoing request to sentry.io - Requires sign up (only via Github, mind you) I understand the first request is probably to get some dynamic configuration, even though I'd rather my terminal ship with static configuration. But then you have segment and sen…

Come on. You must realize VS Code and basically every website you use collects telemetry data, which is rarely for anything nefarious except product improvements. If GitHub/Microsoft had released this product, would you be raising the same concerns?

> which is rarely for anything nefarious except product improvements

Up until now, you've had to make these design decisions on your own, relying only on perplexing intangibilities like 'taste' and 'intuition'.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#193

They’ve raised $23m?!? Uhhh

I think you could build a really good terminal if you had $23M to piss away. I strongly doubt you can create a good terminal if it also needs a business model that can recoup $23M.

I don't doubt you could have a single, family supporting business supporting a piece of software. Like, I am rabid to pay $20 for a license to any software I can run by a small guy.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#194

This is bullshit. > The terminal’s teletype-like interface has made it hard for the CLI to thrive bullshit > user accounts to just run a terminal? bullshit > collaboration bullshit ...

Actually I would say collaboration is a huge win. Right now we do shared screens when we have to do some CLI operation.

I know and have worked at companies with very complicated setups for CLI-based workflows where you need 2 people to agree for each command. This could potentially solve all of that.

That being said, with the move to containers there's a lot less CLI surgery to do.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#195
Like others here, I'm leery of replacing my terminal with a VC-backed, maybe open-sourced eventually product, and a bit annoyed it claimed a name already in use in the Rust world.

But...it is exciting to see someone reimagining the terminal a bit. People frequently talk about wanting a better GUI interaction model for everyone, but the actual ideas to improve it seem to be missing, I think because the desktop status quo is really not that bad for low-learning curve systems. (In fact, I think many of the changes in the name of desktop/mobile convergence have been for the worse.) I'm way more interested in the idea of creating a hybrid text/graphic command interface for programmers. There's a much better interface waiting for someone with the vision and (more importantly) ability to create an ecosystem around it. Some ideas:

* Warp's more visual completion is super welcome. Does it work with the shell's standard completion scripts?

* Warp's blocks look like a nice step in the right direction. How do they work? I'd guess it's ANSI codes like iTerm uses to distinguish the ends of commands, although that has the downside that a broken/hostile command can impersonate the shell saying the command has ended. It'd be nice to work out some compatible yet more robust protocol. (Maybe the shell takes responsibility for piping subcommand's output through it and filtering, or maybe something else.)

* It'd be interesting to further extend blocks with some protocol that allows programs to output within their block using richer elements: non-monotype fonts, adjustable tables, etc. A little like a Jupyter notebook, maybe. Even better if it works with some richer way for programs to pipe information to each other.

* Likewise, when launching alternate-screen terminal stuff, to allow them to do more with the rectangle than a grid of text. Closer to embedding an arbitrary cross-platform network-transparent GUI, launched from the shell, occupying its rectangle.

* And at first glance, looks like it's missing tmux-like features (whether integration with tmux proper like iTerm has or its own thing). I'd want that in any richer terminal app—most of my work in terminals is on remote machines, often over flaky network connections.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#196

It looks nice but I'd never use a shell that phone's home. Period. I mean the CLI has been one of the last parts of my system that I really still trust is working on my behalf only. This product made me rethink that assumption. As for capturing the output from a command line on the mac (and also on linux IIRC) just use pbcopy/pbpaste. My opinion: It's not worth giving your privacy away for features like this.

Do you use Windows? Have you ever opened its terminal? Congrats, you're using a terminal that you agreed can phone home with telemtry. See https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/windows-terminal/9n0dx20hk... and the link to the privacy policy for windows terminal http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=521839 I suspect OSX is no different and has similar telemetry and privacy policy for its terminal.

No. I don't use Windows. Or OS X.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#197

It looks nice but I'd never use a shell that phone's home. Period. I mean the CLI has been one of the last parts of my system that I really still trust is working on my behalf only. This product made me rethink that assumption. As for capturing the output from a command line on the mac (and also on linux IIRC) just use pbcopy/pbpaste. My opinion: It's not worth giving your privacy away for features like this.

Do you use Windows? Have you ever opened its terminal? Congrats, you're using a terminal that you agreed can phone home with telemtry. See https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/windows-terminal/9n0dx20hk... and the link to the privacy policy for windows terminal http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=521839 I suspect OSX is no different and has similar telemetry and privacy policy for its terminal.

> I suspect OSX is no different and has similar telemetry and privacy policy for its terminal

wrong, Apple isn't Microsoft

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Not affiliated with Warp but care about this particular thing) Shell scripts implies, well, a particular shell. If everyone is on similar OSes, maybe that works for you, but as a Windows user, "pile of bash scripts" might as well be "doesn't work for you." I use a terminal for my daily work, but don't have bash installed on my machine. That said, I haven't tried Warp yet specifically because it's Mac-only right now.…

That would also now force everyone to use this proprietary product instead of whatever they're familiar with. For mac linux, posix-compliant scripts mostly work in my experience but you have to account for different versions of gnu utils. For linux windows, if it's small you could just write a powershell script, or use something like python on both, no? I fail to see how these features are nice enough to force people…

Yes, that is true, but it does seem like that's what their strategy is. If you're using these collaboration tools at your job, you'd have to be using the product already. So that's less of a problem than it would be for say, scripts included with some sort of open source project.

My point is mostly that shell isn't cross-platform, and this is one way you could address that. But it's not a generalized solution, absolutely.

(and yeah, something like Python is better than trying to keep multiple of the same scripts in different languages, for sure. You can do it if you wanted though, if they're small and you're willing to commit to it, I'm not sure I've ever seen it really pulled off.)

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#199
post #59
post #35

> Telemetry > When Warp comes out of beta, telemetry will be opt-in and anonymous. > But for our beta phase, we do send telemetry by default and we do associate it with the logged in user because it makes it much easier to reach out and get feedback when something goes wrong. This is a hard pass for me, it looks really amazing though. I'm so tired of telemetry, how do we quit our day jobs to focus on open source? ;-;

Warp engineer here. I understand your concern. We will remove telemetry when we enter general availability. It will be opt-in and anonymous. We really want to improve the product quickly during this beta phase. Collecting data makes it much easier to reach out and get feedback when something goes wrong. But we only track metadata, never console output. For an exhaustive list of events that we track, see here: https:/…

I think I'll reserve judgment for when Warp puts its GitHub repository where its canned HN comment is.

If you want to be taken seriously as a security and privacy focused product that can be trusted to handle sensitive data and undertake sensitive operations, this is not a great look. We need to trust you now and be able to trust you today - before general availability. The world of software is littered with "potentially" and "later" statements that somehow never quite manage to arrive.

I hope you can understand our collective skepticism. Trust is earned in drops and lost in buckets. It starts with making it easy to trust you by minimizing how much we have to.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#200
post #20

Wanted to give it a shot but got disappointed when I launched it and the following happened: - Outgoing request to googleapis.com - Outgoing request to segment.io - Outgoing request to sentry.io - Requires sign up (only via Github, mind you) I understand the first request is probably to get some dynamic configuration, even though I'd rather my terminal ship with static configuration. But then you have segment and sen…

Thank you!
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