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Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

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Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#181

Post by JKCalhoun »

satvikpendem wrote: post #173
JKCalhoun wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You get paid to get stuff done, period." It sounds like you hate your job? To be sure, I've done plenty of grinding over my career as a software engineer but in fact I coded as a hobby before it turned into a career, I then continued to code on the side, now I am retired and code still. Perhaps the artist in me that keeps at it.

I don't think they hate their job, just seem to be frustrated at slow bureaucratic processes and long code reviews which I've experienced too. After a while it can get aggravating as to why some people want to nitpick minute details of the code which slows down development overall. I am talking about cases where the initially submitted PR is perfectly fine, not grossly incorrect.

Oh wow, if we're talking about code reviews that's a different topic. I've never, FWIW, encountered "artisans" in code reviews. More like "that's not how I would have coded itsans" and "let me show you some new tricksans".

Yeah, to hell with code reviews. The best years of my career were when I was given carte blanche control over an entire framework, etc. When code reviews came along coding at work sucked.

If anything, the code reviews killed the artisanship.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#182

Post by satvikpendem »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #181
satvikpendem wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they hate their job, just seem to be frustrated at slow bureaucratic processes and long code reviews which I've experienced too. After a while it can get aggravating as to why some people want to nitpick minute details of the code which slows down development overall. I am talking about cases where the initially submitted PR is perfectly fine, not grossly incorrect.

Oh wow, if we're talking about code reviews that's a different topic. I've never, FWIW, encountered "artisans" in code reviews. More like "that's not how I would have coded itsans" and "let me show you some new tricksans". Yeah, to hell with code reviews. The best years of my career were when I was given carte blanche control over an entire framework, etc. When code reviews came along coding at work sucked. If anythi…

Yeah that's what I understood them to mean from "like when in the office people have been spending weeks on optimizing code... just to have the exact same output, exact same time, but now "nicer"." There does come such a time either way when the juice isn't worth the squeeze so to speak in terms of optimization of code.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#183

Post by stronglikedan »

river_otter wrote: post #178

Great idea and name the danger here which I'll be interested to track is how do you keep this "nano"? Since it's built for you, you'll continue adding features i assume which over time will make this not very nano. I guess I'm wondering if there could be some small design tweaks of the repo that make this usable as a long term "fork the base and make it your own" concept

A personal implementation will always be "nano" compared to the full OpenClaw suite. As with literally everything, it's all relative.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#184

Post by frizlab »

enraged_camel wrote: post #169
frizlab wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Exactly the same as there should never be an “artisan era” for chairs, tables, buildings, etc. Hell even art! Why should art even be a thing? We are machine driven by neurons, feelings do not exist. Might be your life, it ain’t mine. I’m an artisan of code, and I’m proud to be one. I might finally use AI one of these days at work because I’ll have to, but I’ll never stop cherishing doing hand-crafted code.

>> Yeah. Exactly the same as there should never be an “artisan era” for chairs, tables, buildings, etc. That's funny you bring up those examples, because they have all moved on to the mass manufacturing era. You can still get artisan quality stuff but it typically costs a lot more and there's a lot less of it. Which is why mass-manufacturing won. Same is going to happen with software. LLMs are just the beginning.

Oh no, but I know! And it is indeed terrible.

I live in a city where there are new houses being built. They are ugly. Meanwhile, the ones that exist since a long time ago have charm and feel homely.

I don’t know, I‘m probably just a regular old man yelling at clouds, but I still think we’re going in the wrong direction. For pretty much everything. And for what? Money. Yay!

Hugh.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#185

Post by fragmede »

enraged_camel wrote: post #169
frizlab wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Exactly the same as there should never be an “artisan era” for chairs, tables, buildings, etc. Hell even art! Why should art even be a thing? We are machine driven by neurons, feelings do not exist. Might be your life, it ain’t mine. I’m an artisan of code, and I’m proud to be one. I might finally use AI one of these days at work because I’ll have to, but I’ll never stop cherishing doing hand-crafted code.

>> Yeah. Exactly the same as there should never be an “artisan era” for chairs, tables, buildings, etc. That's funny you bring up those examples, because they have all moved on to the mass manufacturing era. You can still get artisan quality stuff but it typically costs a lot more and there's a lot less of it. Which is why mass-manufacturing won. Same is going to happen with software. LLMs are just the beginning.

Did you get the Eames version of Windows, or a knockoff?

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#187

Post by yunohn »

_zoltan_ wrote: post #106
nialse wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”I don't care deeply about this code. It's not a masterpiece. It's functional code that is very useful to me.” - AI software engineering in a nutshell. Leaving the human artisan era of code behind. Function over form. Substance over style. Getting stuff done.

There should never have been an "artisan era". We use computers to solve problems. You should have always getting stuff done instead of bikeshedding over nitty-gritty details, like when in the office people have been spending weeks on optimizing code... just to have the exact same output, exact same time, but now "nicer". You get paid to get stuff done, period.

The exact mindset is what has led to the transition from quality products to commercialized crapware, not just with software, but across all industries.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#188

Post by pulkas »

This violates the Claude Code subscription terms of service, so please be careful.

This project violates Claude Code's Terms of Service by automating Claude to create an unattended chatbot service that responds to third-party messaging platforms (WhatsApp, and what you add ...).

  The exact issues:

  1. Automated, unattended usage - The system runs as a background service (launchd) that automatically responds to WhatsApp
  messages without human intervention (src/index.ts:549-574)

  2. Building a bot service - This creates a persistent bot that monitors messages and responds automatically, which violates restrictions on building derivative services on top of Claude

  3. Third-party platform integration - Connecting Claude to WhatsApp (or other messaging platforms) to create an automated
  assistant service isn't an authorized use case.

  The README itself reveals awareness of this issue at line 41:

  **No ToS gray areas.** Because it uses Claude Agent SDK natively with no hacks or workarounds, using your subscription with your auth token is completely legitimate (I think). No risk of being shut down for terms of service violations
  (I am not a lawyer).

  The defensive tone ("I think", "I am not a lawyer") indicates uncertainty about legitimacy. While using your own credentials doesn't automatically make automated bot services compliant—Anthropic's TOS restricts using their products to build automated chatbot services, regardless of authentication method.

  The core violation: transforming Claude Code into an automated bot service that operates without human intervention, which is explicitly prohibited.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#189

Post by vidarh »

charcircuit wrote: post #107
popcorncowboy wrote: post #33

> running it scares the crap out of me A hundred times this. It's fine until it isn't. And jacking these Claws into shared conversation spaces is quite literally pushing the afterburners to max on simonw's lethal trifecta. A lot of people are going to get burned hard by this. Every blackhat is eyes-on this right now - we're literally giving a drunk robot the keys to everything.

It turns out the lethal trifecta is not so lethal. Should a business avoid hiring employees since technically employees can steal from the cash register. The lethal trifecta is about binary security. Either the data can be taken or it can't. This may be overly cautious. It may be possible that hiring an employee has a positive expected value when when you account for the possibility of one stealing from the cash regi…

You're taking it too literally.

The point is to recognise that certain patterns has a cost in the form of risks, and that cost can be massively outsize of the benefits.

Just as the risk of giving a poorly vetted employee unfettered access to the company vault.

In the case of employees, businesses invest a tremendous amount of money in mitigating the insider risks. Nobody is saying you should take no risks with AI, but that you should be aware of how serious the risks are, and how to mitigate them or manage them in other ways.

Exactly as we do with employees.

Re: Show HN: NanoClaw – “Clawdbot” in 500 lines of TS with Apple container isolation

#190

Post by vidarh »

sothatsit wrote: post #76
overgard wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, every major AI player is losing a (lot) of money on running LLMs, even just with inference. It's hard to say for sure because they don't publish the financials (or if they do, it tends to be obfuscated), but if the screws start being turned on investment dollars they not only have to increase the price of their current offerings (2x cost wouldn't shock me), but some of them also need a (massive)…

Dario Amodei has said that their models actually have a good return, even when accounting for training costs [0]. They lose money because of R&D, training the next bigger models, and I assume also investment in other areas like data centers. Sam Altman has made similar statements, and Chinese companies also often serve their models very cheaply. All of this makes me believe them when they say they are profitable on A…

We can also look at the inference costs at 3rd party inference providers.
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