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Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

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Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#171

Post by tardedmeme »

kstrauser wrote: post #76
qcl820DV34 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and after over a year of debate There was no "year of debate". You came to the mailing list and announced it for the first time as a finalized decision already, without any prior debate with the original team. The "board" you cited as the body which allegedly discussed it did neither join the mailing list discussion, nor were you willing to hand out their contact info. It's all public for anyone to see on the maili…

WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page: - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... Gee, I can't imagine how that mailing list could ever be toxic.

Why is it always people like this who run projects that should be good? SimpleX, Xlibre, Freenet Locutus, that's three, and I'm sure there are more.

Edit: do they all like the letter X, too? I think in this list it's just a coincidence, but maybe?

Edit because I can't post a new comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46608061

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#172

Post by tardedmeme »

sanity wrote: post #122
spankalee wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the greatest threat to civilization today. "The woke mind virus" really? You used that non-ironically? This is not something a serious or sane person would say for real.

You'd be surprised how mainstream these views are outside certain bubbles.

inside other bubbles.

Why do you get to bypass the HN global rate limit?

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#173

Post by tardedmeme »

stackghost wrote: post #113
qcl820DV34 wrote: post #16

Notably this project was conceived by a backroom decision to dump the original Freenet development team's work, in favor of a rewrite from different developers, without asking anyone on the original team. It was an ivory tower decision which was announced on the mailing list without prior discussion. The old team did not agree, yet it was forced through by a decision of the "board". The "board" was a group of people…

>while the old one continues to exist and is maintained under its new name "Hyphanet" Well, that name pretty much dooms the project to a slow death in obscurity.

To play devil's advocate, wasn't it already long dead?

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#174

Post by tardedmeme »

Gigachad wrote: post #142
rohitsriram wrote: post #138

Decentralized web has been a pipe dream forever but group chat actually working in practice is more convincing than anything they could have shown. Real time sync was always the hard part. Curious about mobile though, you mentioned iOS is the main blocker because of wasm restrictions. Is the plan to run the peer on desktop and have mobile just connect to it, or are you expecting people to run a full peer on Android?

The hard part imo was not being exposed to, or unknowingly redistributing illegal content. They claim this new freenet solves this but the details on how weren't super clear.

Every Tor relay redistributes CSAM daily, but nobody gets busted for running a Tor relay.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#175

Post by sanity »

subscribed wrote: post #167
sanity wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the use of a single phrase in an obscure three year old mailing list post is enough to make you dismiss someone entirely, that probably says more about you than it does about me.

If you said "vaccines cause autism" it does the same. It's a pattern, a symptom of the deeply unbalanced and, ironically, non-free thinking. A warning sign. Look, if everyone around tells you says it sounds like a donkey, looks like a donkey and walks like a donkey, maybe check with a vet? It's not a conspiracy and not that hard. You'd be embarrassed if you u saw what we see. And indeed, you destroyed the credibility…

[flagged]

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#176

Post by somerandom2407 »

bglusman wrote: post #123
sanity wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean but I stand by every word I said in that thread.

You can stand by things you said but also learn from them/from people’s responses to them…. For instance, you declare someone’s response virtue signaling… This hit me in a funny way, partly because it’s valid, it’s true, there is a lot of signaling that goes on you learn to see, virtue and otherwise… but also because of how insidious a criticism it is, because it reframes a debate away from correctness and towards wh…

I just want to quickly jump on what you said about Linus. I know a lot of people look at his change and see it as a "growth moment", but my view is that he was forced to change by a growing body of people who take relatively extreme actions against those not seen to be towing the line. There was another group of people like this in history. We rightly condemned that evil group and their actions, and we were once more tolerant and open-minded towards one-another as people. I miss those days.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#177

Post by Timwi »

tardedmeme wrote: post #171
kstrauser wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page: - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... Gee, I can't imagine how that mailing list could ever be toxic.

Why is it always people like this who run projects that should be good? SimpleX, Xlibre, Freenet Locutus, that's three, and I'm sure there are more. Edit: do they all like the letter X, too? I think in this list it's just a coincidence, but maybe? Edit because I can't post a new comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46608061

Wild theory: maybe it's because in order to stay focused, passionate and dedicated to a project, you have to have a passionate mind dedicated to a narrower viewpoint. The more open-minded you are, the more likely you accept that detractors might have a point, and then increasingly realize that it's impossible to please everyone.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#178

Post by raffraffraff »

kstrauser wrote: post #76
qcl820DV34 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and after over a year of debate There was no "year of debate". You came to the mailing list and announced it for the first time as a finalized decision already, without any prior debate with the original team. The "board" you cited as the body which allegedly discussed it did neither join the mailing list discussion, nor were you willing to hand out their contact info. It's all public for anyone to see on the maili…

WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page: - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... Gee, I can't imagine how that mailing list could ever be toxic.

If his definition of woke mind virus is "identitarianism", then it's agree that it's fucking awful. But I wouldn't call it "woke mind virus".

Identitarianism is a cancer, that has been fed via social media algorithms. We seem to have invented a machine for rewarding all of the wrong incentives. Who would have thought that phenomena like audience capture & polarised thought bubbles would be in the palm of the hand, directing thoughts and forming unbreakable opinions on an array of issues that otherwise wouldn't even be on the radar?

I don't think that this is a left, right or in between thing. Identitarianism had infected the entire political spectrum.

BTW: Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't take the Wikipedia definition of "identitarian movement" and identitarianism. I'm thinking entirely about identity politics. "If you're associated with person X you must be Y", or "If you believe A you must be a B". Highly policed thought bubbles. Ostracism. Cancelling.

As a result, today, with technology that can enable mass communication of thought, there are important conversations that can no longer happen in society.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#179

Post by Timwi »

angoragoats wrote: post #155
DaSHacka wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's telling you to go and touch grass

The person who said “the woke mind virus… is the greatest threat to civilization today” is telling me *I* am the one who should go touch grass? That’s hilarious.

Yup, it really is.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#180

Post by nextgens »

outside2344 wrote: post #27
qcl820DV34 wrote: post #16

Notably this project was conceived by a backroom decision to dump the original Freenet development team's work, in favor of a rewrite from different developers, without asking anyone on the original team. It was an ivory tower decision which was announced on the mailing list without prior discussion. The old team did not agree, yet it was forced through by a decision of the "board". The "board" was a group of people…

So he forked the project and went his own way. I am not sure I see the issue here. This is how we do open source on the internet. You don't have to join him, but he also has the right to go his own way too.

You're getting this wrong.

He has forked the project (to something that does not share the same goals so "fork" is arguable here), took the name, the cash and the goodwill.

We went from "we have enough donations/donators" to "how do we pay for the upcoming AWS bill?".

As someone who has been fairly active on the "old freenet", I have never cared about money nor funding... but I cannot help but notice that some has likely been misappropriated. Things like the SUMA award (https://web.archive.org/web/20150320201527/http://suma-award...) were awarded specifically for "protection against surveillance and censorship" that the "new freenet" does not even aim to provide.

"The board" of the non-profit seems to have been culled just before the decision. I don't know why, I wasn't on it. Maybe @agl can shime in (he was).

All I know is that this could have been handled better. It's what I wrote back then on https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5527...

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