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Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

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Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#171

Post by throwaway81523 »

aclarry wrote: post #81
Bermion wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to limit speed and the amount of interactions between cars and pedestrians. This will necessarily be at the expense of the drivers who will have to drive slower and get less space since they have historically been prioritized. It is much easier to implement the necessary measures (against the will of many drivers) if it is clear that drivers run over people, not that people accidentally end up under cars.

But the solution that comes out of that framing is to somehow shame drivers into being better, as opposed to making roads better.

"We need to limit speed and the amount of interactions between cars and pedestrians" doesn't sound to me like relying on shaming (which never works). Rather, it evokes like building e.g. walkways and bike paths that are physically separated from roads with cars. That is much more effective.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#172

Post by calt »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #123
Zak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I remember reading about the impact of speed limits is that reducing them only affects the slowest quartile or so of drivers while changes to road design such as reducing road width and visibility slow down almost all drivers. Reducing the speed of some drivers and not others increases aggressive driving and probably isn't good for safety. I don't take the position that reducing speed is a good answer for every…

> reducing them only affects the slowest quartile or so of drivers And having to navigate traffic that is not of a homogeneous speed creates cognitive load for all drivers. So then they don't notice things like cyclists and pedestrians.

That makes no sense. Mixed use and mixed speed creates an environment where drivers have to notice diversity of traffic, including cyclists and pedestrians.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#173

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

aclarry wrote: post #81
Bermion wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to limit speed and the amount of interactions between cars and pedestrians. This will necessarily be at the expense of the drivers who will have to drive slower and get less space since they have historically been prioritized. It is much easier to implement the necessary measures (against the will of many drivers) if it is clear that drivers run over people, not that people accidentally end up under cars.

But the solution that comes out of that framing is to somehow shame drivers into being better, as opposed to making roads better.

> But the solution that comes out of that framing is to somehow shame drivers into being better, as opposed to making roads better.

This tool actually includes a recommendation called "framing" which asks writers to incorporate sentences specifically to highlight the systemic nature of the problem as opposed to blaming individual drivers. Click on one of the examples to see, explained at https://visionzeroreporting.com/issues#framing:

Article lacks thematic framing. Readers who encounter episodic frames tend to hold individuals responsible for negative outcomes and put less pressure on public leaders to make changes. [Learn more about framing]

SENTENCES None found.

HOW TO FIX Include at least 3 thematic elements.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#174

Post by zip1234 »

butwhywhyoh wrote: post #124
yodelshady wrote: post #117

That's actually pretty amazing work. Being super preachy, as a cliched straight white etc etc... after riding a bike I sort of get complaints about -isms, emotionally, in a way I wouldn't without. Everyone has already concluded that you deserved it . Whatever happened. It does not matter if you were wearing hi-vis, or had a light, or were in a bike lane, or the nearest bike lane is 5 miles away and on the pavement fo…

I'd love to hear even one anecdote of 'kid believes bikers are unfairly blamed for accidents' -> 'kid decides never to exercise again in any form'

More like 'parents won't let kid ride more than block from their house'.

And so we get stuff like this:

https://www.engadget.com/little-tikes-smart-stationary-bike-...

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#175

Post by zip1234 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #132
emj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about the infrastructure in Ireland, but the drivers in the US kill at least twice as many people. Letting people drive cars at 50 km/h in an urban area is crazy, everyone you hit at those speeds die.

What speed in miles would you think is Apr. Because 50km/h give you pretty good relation time. The trick is not to get in a crash from the start

They just lowered it in Paris to 30km/h. Lower speed is directly correlated with less crashes. The other benefit is less noise, which is very important in an urban area. In most urban areas now the loudest most constant noise is from vehicles.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#176

Post by ziml77 »

dymk wrote: post #9

This is neat, but something bugs me about the framing of the intended goal versus how you propose to get there. If the intent is to raise public awareness and to put pressure on leadership to make roads generally safer, why do almost all the corrections follow a pattern of shifting blame from the individual pedestrian onto the individual driver? Many of the suggested fixes are just their own form of counterfactual -…

I disagree. Framing it as anything other than the driver causing the crash makes it too easy for people to blame everything but themselves. Drivers need to understand the dangers of the road and drive in ways that make sense given all the conditions.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#177

Post by ziml77 »

lamontcg wrote: post #137
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing your behavior gives the cyclists and the road users around you (other cars, pedestrians looking for a spot to cross, etc, etc) the impression that you're a skittish or novice driver and are uncomfortable with the situation. This puts them on alert that you might do something unexpected (you are presumably a novice after all). This takes attention away from all the other things that demand their attention and…

> you are presumably a novice after all I'm 49 and I've been driving since I was 16. You can absolutely react to hazards without appearing skittish, which also alerts other traffic to the hazard if they're paying close attention. Trying to drive like a robot all the time is something that actual novice drivers think makes them better drivers.

I don't know why this other person is claiming that altering your driving based on what's happening on the road is a bad thing. Not adapting to the conditions is how many crashes happen in the first place.

All that other stuff in this thread about safer road design is really about removing the need to think about how to drive. So instead of making it so drivers need to give cyclists room, safe road design would just give them that room. But in the absence of those safer designs, people just need to drive more safely.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#178

Post by dionidium »

sokoloff wrote: post #153
dionidium wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People think of bad driving tickets (mostly speeding) as just a price you pay to drive. Furthermore, we literally use the phrase, "never got so much as a speeding ticket" to suggest that speeding is the epitome of a minor, inconsequential infraction, when the reality is that we know speeding is a significant cause of and contributor to death, destruction, and injury in automobile crashes.

Every speeding ticket that I’ve gotten in the US was issued on a controlled access road with a speed limit of at least 55mph. None were for as much as 20 over. Most were from pack travel where deciding to travel at the posted limit would result in far more passing and aggregate risk to roadway users. I do believe all of those are minor infractions (and of course they were inconsequential, except for the delay and exp…

This is a hugely important distinction. Unfortunately, speeding in urban areas — which is the kind of consequential speeding I care about — is still very common. If it were confined to the type of speeding you’re describing, then it wouldn’t matter (as much). But it’s not.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#179

Post by zten »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #162
lamontcg wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are presumably a novice after all I'm 49 and I've been driving since I was 16. You can absolutely react to hazards without appearing skittish, which also alerts other traffic to the hazard if they're paying close attention. Trying to drive like a robot all the time is something that actual novice drivers think makes them better drivers.

>I'm 49 and I've been driving since I was 16. My point is you look like a novice in the eyes of the other drivers because the only information they have is that you're having a harder time than everyone else passing the cyclist(s). >You can absolutely react to hazards without appearing skittish, which also alerts other traffic to the hazard if they're paying close attention. I agree

> My point is you look like a novice in the eyes of the other drivers because the only information they have is that you're having a harder time than everyone else passing the cyclist(s).

In my experience, this is because the other drivers are just rolling the dice and passing on blind curves or passing in the same lane with barely any clearance. It's not an example of good driving ... but it is predictable.

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