Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#161

Post by rnd33 » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 12:59 PM UTC

klausjensen wrote: post #147

lovskogen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also free in Norway.

It certainly is not. It is paid for by one of the highest tax rates in the world. I currently work in Norway and pay more than 50% in income tax and social contributions - and that does not even include other taxes and excise duties like the 25% VAT, the 9USD/gallon gas price (mostly tax) or the new car tax of something like 150-200%, property taxes, road taxes, vehicle taxes, alchold and tobacco taxes... So no, it i…

And people in America stating that healthcare is not free is a rant-trigger for me.

Everyone here knows that it's not "free" but subsidised by taxes. That's what "free" means when talking about healthcare, free at the point of service, and free as equally available to everyone.

How else would it work? Are the doctors without pay and with no equipment?

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#162

Post by specialist » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:15 PM UTC

x0054 wrote: post #142

matwood wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dispute all of it and the bill will likely be way less than 20k. I had mallet finger once and I got a bill of thousands of dollars and charge for a broken finger, then a set, and multiple check up visits. In reality I went to the doctor once, got an xray, he gave me a splint and said don't take it off for 8 weeks. I never went back for a second visit because it wasn't needed assuming I followed the treatment of did n…

This is exactly why I get so pissed about the Affordable Care Act! We are not solving the problem of why medical care in USA is so outrageously expensive, we instead are solving the problem of how to pay for it. The problem is, once most people have insurance, there will be no political will to solve the much more complex and important problem of reducing the healthcare costs for everyone. Incidentally, totally agree…

ACA is a step towards single payer, which enables capitation model, vs fee for service. Meaning paying to keep people healthy vs profiting from disease. It's all about the incentives.

Medicare is already transitioning to capitation.

Meanwhile, while not ideal, ACA has already significantly slowed down the growth of costs. Amazing what just adding some price transparency can do.

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#163

Post by bananacurve » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 1:22 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #93

This is cute, but it is based on a flawed premise. There are not "prices" for medical procedures and even the providers don't know what they are going to charge. Anecdata: when my wife was pregnant I asked the hospital what are the basic charges for normal obstetric delivery, since we were paying out of pocket. I got a reply in writing that it was $20k, a suspiciously round number without itemization. The baby comes…

>Needless to say that this American hospital would not even have admitted us without a certified check in advance

Well you ended up screwing yourself. Maybe you have never spoken to an American who didn't have health insurance and so didn't know, but, medical bills are settled later for less than half the insurance price and all hospitals have to admit you regardless of ability to pay by federal law championed by Kennedy.

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#164

Post by aestra » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 2:21 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #93

This is cute, but it is based on a flawed premise. There are not "prices" for medical procedures and even the providers don't know what they are going to charge. Anecdata: when my wife was pregnant I asked the hospital what are the basic charges for normal obstetric delivery, since we were paying out of pocket. I got a reply in writing that it was $20k, a suspiciously round number without itemization. The baby comes…

>Needless to say that this American hospital would not even have admitted us without a certified check in advance.

An emergency room cannot refuse treatment to a women in labor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and...

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#165

Post by ma2rten » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 2:22 PM UTC

x0054 wrote: post #142

matwood wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dispute all of it and the bill will likely be way less than 20k. I had mallet finger once and I got a bill of thousands of dollars and charge for a broken finger, then a set, and multiple check up visits. In reality I went to the doctor once, got an xray, he gave me a splint and said don't take it off for 8 weeks. I never went back for a second visit because it wasn't needed assuming I followed the treatment of did n…

This is exactly why I get so pissed about the Affordable Care Act! We are not solving the problem of why medical care in USA is so outrageously expensive, we instead are solving the problem of how to pay for it. The problem is, once most people have insurance, there will be no political will to solve the much more complex and important problem of reducing the healthcare costs for everyone. Incidentally, totally agree…

A telling thing: if you make world-wide health insurance it's valid for every single country other than the US. If you want US coverage the price will usually double.

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#166

Post by 3pt14159 » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #93

This is cute, but it is based on a flawed premise. There are not "prices" for medical procedures and even the providers don't know what they are going to charge. Anecdata: when my wife was pregnant I asked the hospital what are the basic charges for normal obstetric delivery, since we were paying out of pocket. I got a reply in writing that it was $20k, a suspiciously round number without itemization. The baby comes…

My question is how are they not criminally charged with fraud when this happens? I could understand if this only happens once in a while, that it isn't done intentionally, but it happens all the fucking time, so someone is clearly intentionally doing it.

If you hold a man hostage for a month or a year you go to jail for a year or two. If you intentionally overbill a man so that he must work an extra year worst case scenario you... send a sternly written letter and pay them the original amount?

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#167

Post by yodsanklai » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 2:44 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #93

This is cute, but it is based on a flawed premise. There are not "prices" for medical procedures and even the providers don't know what they are going to charge. Anecdata: when my wife was pregnant I asked the hospital what are the basic charges for normal obstetric delivery, since we were paying out of pocket. I got a reply in writing that it was $20k, a suspiciously round number without itemization. The baby comes…

"I got a reply in writing that it was $20k"

That sounds unbelievable! how can it be? it has to be a marginal case. I know at least two people that had babies in the US and barely pay anything (neither for the delivery nor for other medical acts before and after). They were PhD students or postdocs.

What I am wondering is on average how much an american pays for having a baby?

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#168

Post by aestra » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 2:45 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #139

ghayes wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no free lunch?

There might be. The US government spends way more money per head on public healthcare than the UK (and only slightly less than Norway) and that's totally separate to all the private spending! http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jun/30/healthc... Procedures are so expensive, doctors so highly paid, and insurers so profitable that the US is essentially subsidizing all that while still not providing universal…

Nobody in the United States gets access to cutting edge/experimental medicine either. Insurances just won't pay for it. They say "too experimental" and "not medically nessessary" is a reason not to pay. I am currently in a 3rd level of appeal to get my insurance company to pay for my medication they claim is "too experimental" (it isn't by the way!!!)

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#169

Post by vijayr » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 3:01 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #93

This is cute, but it is based on a flawed premise. There are not "prices" for medical procedures and even the providers don't know what they are going to charge. Anecdata: when my wife was pregnant I asked the hospital what are the basic charges for normal obstetric delivery, since we were paying out of pocket. I got a reply in writing that it was $20k, a suspiciously round number without itemization. The baby comes…

$20K for a normal delivery? that sends shivers down my spine. I knew healthcare is expensive, but this is insane.

Re: Show HN: I mapped US medical prices. Save thousands by driving a few miles

#170

Post by nawitus » Sat, Dec 07, 2013, 3:11 PM UTC

klausjensen wrote: post #147

lovskogen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also free in Norway.

It certainly is not. It is paid for by one of the highest tax rates in the world. I currently work in Norway and pay more than 50% in income tax and social contributions - and that does not even include other taxes and excise duties like the 25% VAT, the 9USD/gallon gas price (mostly tax) or the new car tax of something like 150-200%, property taxes, road taxes, vehicle taxes, alchold and tobacco taxes... So no, it i…

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