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Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

filiph.github.io

161–170 of 170 posts

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#161
post #44

I like this! In the grand HN tradition of being triggered by a word in the post and going off on a not-quite-but-basically-totally-tangential rant: There’s (at least) three areas here that are footguns with these kinds of calculations: 1) 95% is usually a lot wider than people think - people take 95% as “I’m pretty sure it’s this,” whereas it’s really closer to “it’d be really surprising if it were not this” - by and…

>rent is very likely to be correlated with food costs - so, if rent is high, food costs are also likely to be high Not sure I agree with this. It's reasonable to have a model where the mean rent may be correlated with the mean food cost, but given those two parameters we can model the fluctuations about the mean as uncorrelated. In any case at the point when you want to consider something like this you need to do pro…

The family example is a pat example, but take something like project planning - two tasks, each one takes between 2 and 4 weeks - except that they’re both reliant on Jim, and if Jim takes the “over” on task 1, what’s the odds he takes the “under” on task 2?

This is why I joked about it as the mortgage derivatives maxim - what happened in 2008 (mathematically, at least - the parts of the crisis that aren’t covered by the famous Upton Sinclair quote) was that the mortgage backed derivatives were modeled as an aggregate of a thousand uncorrelated outcomes (a mortgage going bust), without taking into account that at least a subset of the conditions leading to one mortgage going bust would also lead to a separate unrelated mortgage going bust - the results were not uncorrelated, and treating them as such meant the “1 in a million” outcome was substantially more likely in reality than the model allowed.

Re: negative feedback - that’s a separate point from the uncorrelated errors problem above, and a critique of using the normal distribution at all for modeling many different scenarios. Normal distributions rely on some kind of, well, normal scattering of the outcomes, which means there’s some reason why they’d tend to clump around a central value. We see it in natural systems because there’s some constraints on things like height and weight of an organism, etc, but without some form of constraint, you can’t rely on a normal distribution - the classic examples being wealth, income, sales, etc, where the outliers tend to be so much larger than average that they’re effectively precluded by a normal distribution, and yet there they are.

To be clear, I’m not saying there are not statistical methods for handling all of the above, I’m noting that the naive approach of modeling several different uncorrelated normally distributed outcomes, which is what the posted tool is doing, has severe flaws which are likely to lead to it underestimating the probability of outlier outcomes.

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#162
post #44

I like this! In the grand HN tradition of being triggered by a word in the post and going off on a not-quite-but-basically-totally-tangential rant: There’s (at least) three areas here that are footguns with these kinds of calculations: 1) 95% is usually a lot wider than people think - people take 95% as “I’m pretty sure it’s this,” whereas it’s really closer to “it’d be really surprising if it were not this” - by and…

> 2) probability is rarely truly uncorrelated Without having fully digested how the Unsure Calculator computes, it seems to me you could perhaps "weight" the ranges you pass to the calculator. Rather than a standard bell curve the Calculator could apply a more tightly focused — or perhaps skewed curve for that term. If you think your salary will be in the range of 10 to 20, but more likely closer to 10 you could: 10…

The correlation in this case isn't about the distribution for the individual event, it's about the interactions between them - so, for instance, Rent could be anywhere between 1200 and 1800, and Food could be anywhere between 100 and 150, but if Rent is 1200, it means Food is more likely to be 100, and if Food is 150, it means Rent is more likely to be 1800. Basically, there's a shared factor that's influencing both (local cost of living) that's the actual thing you need to model.

So, a realistic modeling isn't 1200~1500 + 100~150, it's (1~1.5)*(1200 + 150) - the "cost of living" distribution applies to both factors.

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#164
post #29

It sounds like a gimmick at first, but looks surprisingly useful. I'd surely install it if it was available as an app to use alongside my usual calculator, and while I cannot quite recall a situation when I needed it, it seems very plausible that I'll start finding use cases once I have it bound to some hotkey on my keyboard.

They use dart as their primary language so it should be easy to make a flutter app from it...

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#165
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no familiarity with blue whales but I would guess they're 1--5 times the mass of lorries, which I guess weigh like 10--20 cars which I in turn estimate at 1.2--2 tonnes, so primitively 12--200 tonnes for a normal blue whale. This also aligns with it being at least twice as large as an elephant, something I estimate at 5 tonnes. The question asks for the heaviest, which I think cannot be more than three times t…

I would say general knowledge in many domains may help with this as you can try and approximate to the nearest thing you know from that domain. How you get good at being a generalist is the tricky part, my best bet is reading and doing a lot of trivia (I found crosswords to be somewhat effective at this, but far from being efficient)

No, that has nothing to do with it. Trivia helps you narrow down an interval. It is not necessary to construct a correct interval, which can be of any width.

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#166
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no familiarity with blue whales but I would guess they're 1--5 times the mass of lorries, which I guess weigh like 10--20 cars which I in turn estimate at 1.2--2 tonnes, so primitively 12--200 tonnes for a normal blue whale. This also aligns with it being at least twice as large as an elephant, something I estimate at 5 tonnes. The question asks for the heaviest, which I think cannot be more than three times t…

I would say general knowledge in many domains may help with this as you can try and approximate to the nearest thing you know from that domain. How you get good at being a generalist is the tricky part, my best bet is reading and doing a lot of trivia (I found crosswords to be somewhat effective at this, but far from being efficient)

I am dying inside imagining someone who had to use crossword puzzles to learn how to read. There must be a better way to educate the masses!

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#167
post #29

It sounds like a gimmick at first, but looks surprisingly useful. I'd surely install it if it was available as an app to use alongside my usual calculator, and while I cannot quite recall a situation when I needed it, it seems very plausible that I'll start finding use cases once I have it bound to some hotkey on my keyboard.

I just threw numbers into there (population x ownership percent x replacement frequency x unit cost) to estimate the annual revenue of the smartphone market and got a few percentage points away from what the internet reports is the true value.

Because there are trig functions, this would also be nice for reverse engineering of complex parts from simple measurements (feature volumes, corner angles, cross-sectional areas)

Multimodal would be nice but not necessary.

Inverse trig functions would be interesting but complicated and not necessary.

In any case, this tool is more convenient than opening Python every time I want to estimate a range of answers.

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chance of 4~6 being less than 5 is 50%, the chance of it being greater is also 50%. The median of 100/4~6 has to be 100/5. >there is no way of knowing why the range is between 4 and 6 ??? There is. It is the ~ symbol.

mmh ok thanks, i guess i need extra maths training ;) i didn't mean knowing _that_ the range is between 4 and 6 but _why_, i thought the weighing would be explained by the reasoning, like: "we divide a €100 bill between possibly 4, rather 5 and most probably not 6 persons"

>but _why_

Because that is how it is defined by the author of the article.

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#169
post #107

”Without further knowledge, the calculator cannot know that a negative number is impossible (in other words, you can't have -5 civilizations, for example).” Not true. If there are no negative terms, the equation cannot have negative values.

The calculator cannot know whether there are no negative terms. For example, if people's net worth is distributed 0.2–400, there's likely a significant chunk of people who are, on the whole, in debt. These will be represented as a negative term, even though their distribution was characterised by positive numbers.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Unsure Calculator – back-of-a-napkin probabilistic calculator

#170

I have written similar tools - for command line, fermi: https://git.nunosempere.com/NunoSempere/fermi - for android, a distribution calculator: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.nunosempere.distribution... People might also be interested in https://www.squiggle-language.com/ , which is a more complex version (or possibly https://git.nunosempere.com/personal/squiggle.c >, which is a faster but much more verbose vers…

Another tool in this spirit is https://carlo.app/ >, which allows you to do this kind of calculation on google sheets.

another tool, free: https://www.getguesstimate.com/
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