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Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

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Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#151

Post by sillygoose »

AlexC04 wrote: post #113
kyllo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you feel that Angular itself was a mistake. I do, primarily because it's yet another attempt in a long history of misguided attempts to bestow Turing completeness on XML.

Not at all! Honestly there are some WONDERFUL things about angular. There are some bad ones too. - Polling for changes vs. event driven - two way data bindings causing infinite redraw loops. - "feels like O(n^2)" performance on ng-repeats / large pages but things like the templating, directives, data-binding... they are all really good things. And dependency injection! They have really moved the needle forward on cli…

The overarching problem here is herd mentality. Using Angular is a bad idea, but lots of companies are using it anyway because The Herd stampeded towards the new shiny thing, mostly because of how cool two-way binding looked in Angular's demo toy app.

Now all those companies are bogged down by Angular, but feel like ejecting it would be too costly. Elsewhere, lots of new developers are introduced to Angular and invest time and effort into learning it because they don't know any better.

Herd mentality is a big problem. It's basically the polar opposite of thinking for yourself, and as such, extremely detrimental in other aspects too.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#153

Post by rythie »

Finbarr wrote: post #66

Have you ever encountered a situation in the browser where 32k ops per second from underscorejs wasn't enough? How many rows/columns were in the table being repopulated? 10 times in 2400ms doesn't seem that bad - it's 240ms per refresh. Is this too slow for your use case? The 250ms gain on rendering 1500 rows - is this something you think needs to be optimized? I can't imagine a scenario where all of those rows would…

Even if 240ms was fast, is it still that fast on old iPad, budget Android phone or old computer?

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#154

Post by keslag »

Meai wrote: post #123
keslag wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mithril's use of helper assisted javascript for it's view templating is a giant drawback for me. I'd be using it exclusively, but as an old crusty dev, I've gone down that path more than once, and it's always been a train wreck.

What do you mean by "helper assisted javascript"? Can you give an example where this has caused problems for you? I'm trying to decide between mithril and this library.

Sorry, poor word usage on my part. As vvpan more eloquently puts it, DOM construction via js functions. This is the example from their website. This is very difficult to maintain, and personally, I become very adverse to making changes. Though it appears vvpan has a link to a project attempting to fork(?) React's transformer to be usable in mithril.

    todo.view = function() {
        return m("html", [
            m("body", [
                m("input"),
                m("button", "Add"),
                m("table", [
                    m("tr", [
                        m("td", [
                            m("input[type=checkbox]")
                        ]),
                        m("td", "task description"),
                    ])
                ])
            ])
        ]);
    };

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#155

Post by keslag »

vvpan wrote: post #127
keslag wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mithril's use of helper assisted javascript for it's view templating is a giant drawback for me. I'd be using it exclusively, but as an old crusty dev, I've gone down that path more than once, and it's always been a train wreck.

You mean how the DOM is constructed via JS functions? There's this project to fix it: https://github.com/insin/msx

Thanks for this, I was looking for something that could keep me using Mithril.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#156

Post by debaserab2 »

kyllo wrote: post #73
vdaniuk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Google fault as in a mistake, a defect, an offense that they've created a popular js framework? Is that a correct interpretation of your words?

Only if you feel that Angular itself was a mistake. I do, primarily because it's yet another attempt in a long history of misguided attempts to bestow Turing completeness on XML.

I can make functional prototypes very, very quickly with angular. There are things it does not do well, in my opinion, but it has given me a tool that previously didn't exist in the JS world.

I don't care about the turing completeness of angular.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#157

Post by Murkin »

astoilkov wrote: post #140
oabm wrote: post #83

I'm just generally not a big fan of "X is some percent slower than Y" stats, because I find them counterintuitive. However, in this case I think something is wrong. Rendering: jsblocks: 700ms React: 950ms (35% slower) Angular: 2200ms (310% slower) Doing some maths: 700ms + (700ms * 0.35) = 945ms 700ms + (700ms * 3.10) = 2870ms Looks like they got a little carried away when calculating Angular's rendering speed. Same…

You are absolutely correct. It actually is an error. Thanks I will fix it.

Also, please add 'track by $index' to the Angular example.. might be a suprise for you.

(Makes Angular outperform both frameworks)

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#158

Post by astoilkov »

Murkin wrote: post #152

The speed comparison is sadly incorrect: Adding 'track by $index' to the Angular example makes it run 10x faster (outperforming both React and Blocks).

Are you sure you are getting correct results. Theoretically Angular can't be faster than both libraries because it does not implement something like diffing.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#159

Post by digsmahler »

AlexC04 wrote: post #104
kuyfiuyg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't study it then? It's perfectly fine to continue using what you are using. Most recruiters talking to me still ask for Angular, even if I consider it a little hairy and prefer not using it. After being in the JS sphere for a while and living with these changes, I have learned a lot. Because there is nothing new under the sun, these all do pretty much the same thing - but in different ways. There are tradeoffs,…

I "failed" a job interview recently to the reason that they didn't have faith in my jQuery (any by extension Javascript) skills. I managed to write a multi-page response explaining how the modern frameworks were moving away from jquery in favour of data bindings, virtual dom, etc... while I acknowledge that there is still a place for jQuery, it has a very much diminished role in modern web development. In the end, I…

I think they failed the job interview. jQuery is great, but with React or Angular (or Mithril? don't know what that is) it has become unnecessary. Unless you wanted the job fixing all of their old javascript bugs, in which case my condolences.

Re: Show HN: An Isomorphic JavaScript Framework Faster Than React

#160

Post by astoilkov »

Murkin wrote: post #157
astoilkov wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely correct. It actually is an error. Thanks I will fix it.

Also, please add 'track by $index' to the Angular example.. might be a suprise for you. (Makes Angular outperform both frameworks)

Are you sure you are getting correct results. Theoretically Angular can't be faster than both libraries because it does not implement diffing algorithm.
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