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Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

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Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#151

Post by sanity »

trinsic2 wrote: post #141
sanity wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to say what I believe to be true rather than live in fear of how people looking to take offense might misconstrue something. A culture where people are expected to constantly self-censor to avoid bad-faith interpretations is unhealthy and corrosive.

This reminds me of something someone said. Something about assume everyone is coming from a place of good intent. Even if they are not, you can communicate with people more effectively without bringing in a form of bias that ends up infecting everything. Just because you have a belief about something doesn't make it right to always assume the worst from people and that you always have the best answer. I tend to avoid…

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Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#152

Post by sanity »

16bitvoid wrote: post #148
sanity wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History will be the judge, and so far it's looking very promising given our progress.

What does your progress have to do with the name? You're so defensive that you're reasoning with non sequiturs.

What would your success metric be for whether reusing the name was the right decision?

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#153

Post by timschmidt »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #109
qcl820DV34 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely depraved things are not the only thing to use freedom of speech for, and freely speaking can result in all kinds of repressions. And even without agreeing on whether people should be anonymous on the Internet, it could be agreed that replacing a software which guards against a certain threat model (repressions) with one which does not, without changing the name, is not exactly a wise decision.

> Extremely depraved things are not the only thing to use freedom of speech for I’m not a fan of “think of the children“ arguments but the Internet cannot actually be a complete free for all and “freedom of speech” is not some magic shield that overrides all other ethical considerations. CSAM is not a particularly high bar and frankly if you want people to throw in with you then you can’t brush it off so lightly.

> I’m not a fan of “think of the children“ arguments

Yet you're making one.

> the Internet cannot actually be a complete free for all

Yet in many important ways, it is.

As much as publishers would like to shut down Scihub, it exists. The Pirate Bay famously persists. Nation states with entirely opposed legal systems connect and interoperate to at least some degree.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#154

Post by nullsanity »

qcl820DV34 wrote: post #18
nightpool wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very glad to hear that—the anonymity of the original Freenet has led to it being a very unsavory place that was more well known for CSAM then anything positive or useful. As an outsider, it sounds like this new direction is the right choice for Freenet to try and attract new users and fulfill the team's original goals.

Extremely depraved things are not the only thing to use freedom of speech for, and freely speaking can result in all kinds of repressions. And even without agreeing on whether people should be anonymous on the Internet, it could be agreed that replacing a software which guards against a certain threat model (repressions) with one which does not, without changing the name, is not exactly a wise decision.

> Extremely depraved things are not the only thing to use freedom of speech for.

And yet, it's materially all anonymity is actually for in practice, within a margin of error. Tor - mostly crime & CSAM. Crypto - mostly crime. 4chan - mostly degeneracy, some crime. Faceless Corporations - used for crime, and things that should be crimes, but hide under other names.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#155

Post by angoragoats »

DaSHacka wrote: post #106
angoragoats wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I don’t understand.

He's telling you to go and touch grass

The person who said “the woke mind virus… is the greatest threat to civilization today” is telling me *I* am the one who should go touch grass? That’s hilarious.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#156

Post by sanity »

16bitvoid wrote: post #150
qcl820DV34 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Incorrect, I raised the issue with the lead maintainer over a year prior to that announcement. The previous lead maintainer, Steve, voiced their frustration with your decision here: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... To which you sent a brash reply, which sounds like you don't know Steve's position in the community: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... To whic…

I also like how his first response to a reply to the announcement (and multiple others) was "who do you speak for?" while simultaneously framing a discussion with a single person, in private, as a good faith effort to hear from the community with the implicit assumption that that one person spoke for the community.

Endeavors that make decisions based on what will please the loudest people in the near term normally run into the ground pretty quickly. There was never any obligation to obtain the approval of "the community", whatever that is.

Nothing about the name change prevented existing users from continuing to use the software just as they had been doing, and many of them said they agreed with the decision.

I honestly only ever hear about this drama on HN, it's a non-issue anywhere else we get attention.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#157

Post by toomim »

How do you compare this to the effort in https://braid.org, which is also a decentralized web, which adds subscriptions that can operate in a tree (or DAG) of reactive state, each with its own validator and supporting different media types, and merging with merge-types?

Freenet seems to not interoperate with the existing WWW as much, while at the same time giving more specification on a specific routing and WASM validator. The existing WWW and Braid leave those decisions up to each particular host/authority to decide.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#158

Post by 16bitvoid »

sanity wrote: post #152
16bitvoid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does your progress have to do with the name? You're so defensive that you're reasoning with non sequiturs.

What would your success metric be for whether reusing the name was the right decision?

Community size and positive community feedback, which is somewhat tangential to progress, which I assume is in the context of development. Also, the rate at which the original freenet community declines.

Number of contributors or pull requests isn't a good metric at the moment since the advent of Claude Code et al. has seen a dramatic uptick in both everywhere.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#159

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

sanity wrote: post #136
evilos wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That phrase is on par with "chemtrails" and "vaccine truther" with its ability to vaporize one's credibility, if used unironically as OP did in those emails.

Your need to sort people based on trigger phrases says it all.

No, it really doesn't. You're reacting super defensively throughout this entire thread. It's a really bad look.

Re: Show HN: Freenet, a peer-to-peer platform for decentralized apps

#160

Post by foltik »

sanity wrote: post #135
outside1234 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to take anyone seriously that says “The woke mind virus.” That is what is wrong with it.

If the use of a single phrase in an obscure three year old mailing list post is enough to make you dismiss someone entirely, that probably says more about you than it does about me.

> a single phrase in an obscure three year old mailing list post

> I stand by every word I said in that thread

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