Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
151–160 of 292 posts
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#152Deja vu from the other week https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48051562
But otherwise, forge really doesn't own or opine much of the workflow. Step enforcement exists if you want it, so do prerequisites, but the idea is that those could be conditional or optional (you may never need to edit a file).
The guardrails are designed to work for non deterministic flows or deterministic ones. In the latter, you just might not have one of the guardrails active. It's much more about nudging the model back on track than laying more obvious tracks, in a sense.
Overall, agentic reliability is definitely an active field.
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#153Interestingly enough we have found the same net result -- structural guardrails are the unlock for smaller models. Our approach in particular layers three things: a parse rescue for malformed/incorrect tool calls (similar to your retry nudges), content-level intervention (diff size rejection, checkpoint forcing) and state machine enforcement on top (per-phase tool restriction, transition guards). On 13B models we saw…
Reads like processes guarding mediocre teams into higher probability of success? I can hear Alanis Morissette in my head now somehow...
Mostly, I'm embarrassed I've done this whole public reveal without any use of Alanis Morissette anywhere in the work :/
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that comment was aimed at my Wardwright link, not Forge, given mention of policies and proxying model calls! I think your docs are in much better shape ;-)
lol - my bad! but thanks!
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, it's a useful framework even with frontier. And it definitely lifts "cheap" frontier models like Haiku into more solid territory. I haven't done a ton of forge integrations into frontier (like pointing claude code into proxy mode) yet, but if you run into any issues let me know!
And we're off! It's working great with DeepSeek V4, although DeepSeek V4 Pro tends not to really run into problems anyway being near-frontier, but I definitely see improvement with Flash.
It should work with opencode using the proxy server or middleware method right? Any tips?
Does this need a GPU to work? Or is it CPU only? I ask because I plan to try to run this using Docker. But I have a modest RTX 5070 12GB VRAM.
Or maybe I could use opencode as a remote backend too?
I'm thinking of trying the OpenAI-compatible provider route: https://opencode.ai/docs/providers/#custom-provider
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#156I think im missing something, don't all harnesses (opencode, pi, etc) already do stuff like "retry"? As far as I can see, when a tool call fails in either, the model gets the error back to correct.
Harnesses do have retry mechanisms. In opencode in particular, I think they return the error as-is to the model in the next turn. But that's slightly different. Harness retries come mostly in two flavors:
1) provider-layer: HTTP requests to cloud retries, with or without exponential backoff. It covers you for transient network hiccups or rate limits, and a big Opus model really doesn't need more than that.
2) sort of a hope-and-pray retry. Tool ran, returned an error string of some kind, gets fed into model as-is, and the model is expected to read the error message and self-correct with no guidance. This is fine for frontier, and even some of the large oss models. They have the context-following capabilities needed. For smaller models, this won't be enough, not reliably over many turns.
- if model outputs malformed json, provider will reject it before it even reaches the tool, the error loop is broken. A rescue parser handles that - can be ~5-15% of calls on a small model sometimes.
- model calls the wrong tool, correctly, then proceeds confidently with context that won't help it. step enforcement can help here.
- model terminates prematurely, thinking it's done. prerequisite enforcement can help here (say, forcing the model to call pytest before declaring the feature built).
- Escalating nudge messages, that specifically nudge. Just returning error messages doesn't tell the model what to do, it just tells it it was wrong. A message that spells out "tool X does not exist, call one of the available tools: A, B, C" is more helpful to a small model than "error: X not found".
So, in short - yes, retries exist in harnesses, but rely on top-tier model interpretation of the error messages. When working with top models, there's likely no real difference, or a minor one (see Opus bare vs Opus reforged). But Forge provides a more hardened suite of guardrails that are effectively necessary for small models.
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#157I firmly believe that we can bring down the costs for much of our productivity needs by a huge factor if there are guardrails. This is how I am building my coding agent: https://github.com/brainless/nocodo
There is so much we can do if we create tools that do more heavy lifting. Your example of ToolResolutionError is something I have not thought of. Again, I am coming at this from software engineering background, I still do not understand much of the inner working of models or their inference layer but I am sure I will slowly create a coding agent that performs really well for majority of people/business use cases (not enterprise) with small models and big harness.
Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#158Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#159Re: Show HN: Forge – Guardrails take an 8B model from 53% to 99% on agentic tasks
#160Thank you! I am not a researcher, I am a software engineer and I have been chasing better harness for quite some time now. I firmly believe that we can bring down the costs for much of our productivity needs by a huge factor if there are guardrails. This is how I am building my coding agent: https://github.com/brainless/nocodo There is so much we can do if we create tools that do more heavy lifting. Your example of T…
ToolResolutionError is really inspired by HTTP 4xx vs 5xx codes. I don't even have a super clean abstraction I'm happy with yet, I just noticed a lack of standard in the industry (that I was aware of) so I thought to surface it as a gap. I'm sure there's a better shape than my current ToolResolutionError but it's a start!