Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

apps.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 351 posts

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#151

Post by vineyardmike »

yodsanklai wrote: post #133
vineyardmike wrote: post #36

Within the last year or so, I discovered my city’s 311 app, which I’ve become addicted to. I don’t drive, so I’m always walking around the neighborhood, and got in the habit of always reporting graffiti, dumping, illegally parked cars, etc. This had inspired me to try and make a few apps for civic use, but I discovered that many of the accessible web tools for my city have rules against bots. For example, the city ma…

> always reporting graffiti How does your city deal with graffitis? mine is plagued with graffitis and I can't see how they can be fought. It takes too much resources to remove them in a timely manner and impossible to catch the perpetrators.

It’s just a game of cat and mouse. I dont think there is a way to “win”, because it’s so easy to make new graffiti, and not practical to try and police and catch people in the act. I think they require private property owners to clean their own graffiti, which really sucks, but makes it more manageable for the city to focus on public areas.

The city really just has a queue of cleanup sites and priorities locations that are high visibility or important, like school yards or transit infrastructure. An elementary school nearby had its mural destroyed by graffiti, and it was cleaned up within a day.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#152

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

gametorch wrote: post #142
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need for violence. In fact, the capital outlay would be inefficient. If you want to curb speeding, the solution looks much the same: Pay reporters some portion of the fines collected from the speeder. You will very quickly see a cottage industry of Internet connected dashcams and on-board AI solutions spring up, because it's practically free money if you drive safely yourself for long enough. Pretty soon n…

[flagged]

You have it backwards. A perfect detection rate for crime makes it much more important that we define conservatively what we even consider to be a crime in the first place, and then what kind of punishment we levy upon it.

You also have it backwards because it already reliably makes society better for you. Take the case of Biogen employee Michael Bawduniak, who spent seven years documenting covert payments that steered doctors toward Biogen’s multiple‑sclerosis drugs illegally. When the United States Department of Justice settled the case for $900 million in 2022, Bawduniak received roughly $266 million, or about 30% of the federal proceeds, under the False Claims Act. It's a very similar mechanism, and anyone you may know who suffers from multiple sclerosis has likely had their treatment options materially improved thanks to Bawduniak's actions. But those kinds of actions only happen when you have the right mechanisms in place, to reward people who do the right thing.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#153

Post by michaelmrose »

rafram wrote: post #15
MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #8

It seems the lawyers are making it difficult: https://www.nyc.gov/site/dep/environment/idling-citizens-air...

It used to be that as long as the vehicle was on the same block as a school or park, you only had to take a one-minute video (versus three-minute). Now there are some annoying documentation requirements if you want to submit a shorter video. Doesn’t impact the overall usefulness of the program very much IMO — I just didn’t add special handling for school/park reports like I would’ve before they made that change.

Presumably they don't want you taking videos of people who aren't in fact breaking the law and profiting from tickets. NYC regulation requires you to not idle more than 5 minutes.

https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/air-quality/cont...

Although they don't require you to actually take a 5 minute video it is overwhelmingly likely that most people don't pull out there phone every time a vehicle stops in NYC so that most 3 minute videos are liable to be of 5 minute idles.

There are obviously 2 types of problem children cheaters and dummies. It's easier for cheaters to take a 1 minute video since even those who don't intend to idle for any substantial time may pause a moment. For dummies making them actually sit there and film 3 minutes decreases the chance that they will accidentally misunderstand how much time has passed. People are heavily biased towards their own benefits and are liable to miss-perceive 4.5 minutes as 5. Less possible when he pulled out his phone at the 2+ minute mark and now has to wait 3 minutes to have enough.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#154

Post by gametorch »

pvg wrote: post #147
gametorch wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point. It's hard to assess whether I'm being honest with myself about that. But I know this app is truly evil in my system of morality. AI art can be very soulless. Very dehumanizing. In certain sense. But those two qualities are undeniably attached to surveillance states. In all senses. There is no argument against that.

It’s someone’s show hn for something that’s NYC law, designed to address a specific local problem. Calling this ‘evil’ is, at a minimum, unserious bombast which the site rules ask you to avoid, especially when discussing someone else’s work. You can critique the work without the Savonarola act. It also happens to be more effective that way so it’s in your own interest.

I really am supportive of 99.9% of Show HNs, merely for the sake of the posters actually trying to build something

This is one of the few things I feel very strongly about and I'm going to do everything in my power to stop it. His idea is actively harming what makes America a good place to live in. And his idea is what makes China a bad place to live in. I'm not just going to sit here and say nothing.

I don't care if this negative EV for my own personal interests. I felt the need to speak up and people agree with me. Hopefully his post gets taken down.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#155

Post by mhuffman »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law.

This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrupulous businesses could use it against competition.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#156

Post by mstaoru »

gametorch wrote: post #121
screye wrote: post #53

Amazing ! Decentralizing traffic enforcement is a win-win. Bravo to NYC for opening this sort of program and OP for turning it into an "efficient free market". Will try it out soon. Bookmarked.

[flagged]

I lived in China for many many years and this is not a good example. Parking, and driving in general, is chaotic and unregulated. Yes, you have cameras everywhere that detect running on red or taking a wrong lane, but that's about makes it. Speeding, haphazard parking, everything is allowed. Scooters go anywhere. Bikes go anywhere. People go anywhere. Red, green, anything in between, it's a free for all. Like a policeman smoking under "no smoking" signs is totally normal. I'd say, you can get away with mostly anything in China, nobody would care (unless you're non-Chinese, then dutiful neighbors will report your every sneeze).

PS: Yet I do find OP's idea reminding me of China. Having a society that polices itself (just in China it's more about thought, not behavior) is definitely not a thing I would enjoy.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#157

Post by kennywinker »

userbinator wrote: post #148
9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #138

Spying on your friends, neighbors, and family? Nothing to see here, just old Soviet style repression tactics.

Orwell was right.

You mean when he said “Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it.” or something else?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#158

Post by gametorch »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #152
gametorch wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have it backwards. A perfect detection rate for crime makes it much more important that we define conservatively what we even consider to be a crime in the first place, and then what kind of punishment we levy upon it. You also have it backwards because it already reliably makes society better for you. Take the case of Biogen employee Michael Bawduniak, who spent seven years documenting covert payments that steer…

[flagged]

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#159

Post by ffsm8 »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #141
ffsm8 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was was more common around the world. Not just with parking though, but everything in the context of cars. Like letting the police install a permanent speed trap on your property or even pay for the privilege of them doing so. I'd bet that'd curb a lot of speeding in short order

There's no need for violence. In fact, the capital outlay would be inefficient. If you want to curb speeding, the solution looks much the same: Pay reporters some portion of the fines collected from the speeder. You will very quickly see a cottage industry of Internet connected dashcams and on-board AI solutions spring up, because it's practically free money if you drive safely yourself for long enough. Pretty soon n…

Uh, did someone advocate for violence?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#160

Post by renewiltord »

mhuffman wrote: post #155
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrup…

Yeah, like the ADA for example. We should not have started down that slippery slope. Repeal the ADA!
Post reply on HN