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Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

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Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#151

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #120
PawgerZ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copying my previous comment over because I found a fix that works for me: There's some issue with DNS over HTTPS, so you have to whitelist their sites in your settings, or turn off DNS over HTTPS (which I don't recommend). To whitelist, on Firefox: Hamburger menu > settings > privacy and security > DNS over HTTPS > Manage exceptions > Add "archive.is", "archive.ph", and "archive.today"

It has nothing to do with dns-over-https, it has to do with using cloudflare dns at all, over https or plain. In my case I added override rules in my opnsense router so that archive.is .ph .today .md are all resolved by a different nameserver. Disabling DOH can appear to fix it only in the happenstance case that the fallback plain dns doesn't end up using cloudflare, or doesn't use it first.

Why not using this instead? Too slow?

https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls/

No issues with any archive-sites.

Aside from not being censored at all, thereby enabling visiting sites which are blocked at DNS-level in some locations, there are several options for adblocking at DNS-level, too. Often eliminating the need for a Proxy or VPN to get access, with optional Adblock as a service.

For free.

It's nice.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#152

Post by paulgb »

littlestymaar wrote: post #139
paulgb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking down all his projects (not just 12ft) is heavy-handed, but otherwise Guillermo’s response in that thread seems pretty reasonable to me: > Hey Thomas. Your paywall-bypassing site broke our ToS and created hundreds of hours of support time spent on all the outreach from the impacted businesses. > Our support team reached out to you on Oct 14th to let you know this was unsustainable and to try to work with you.

> but otherwise Guillermo’s response in that thread seems pretty reasonable to me “Other than the completely unreasonable thing, they seemed pretty reasonable”. I mean he's not being a complete asshole in the discussion here[1], but nuking the entire customer's account for a ToS violation on one specific product still isn't a reasonable move. Yes Google and Amazon do it routinely, but if you're not a trillion dollar…

If you violate the TOS of a free service, it’s not on them to surgically split your account into “offending” and “non-offending” parts, especially if they reach out to you to try to work with you to remove the offending parts and you don’t respond for two weeks.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#153

Post by littlestymaar »

paulgb wrote: post #152
littlestymaar wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but otherwise Guillermo’s response in that thread seems pretty reasonable to me “Other than the completely unreasonable thing, they seemed pretty reasonable”. I mean he's not being a complete asshole in the discussion here[1], but nuking the entire customer's account for a ToS violation on one specific product still isn't a reasonable move. Yes Google and Amazon do it routinely, but if you're not a trillion dollar…

If you violate the TOS of a free service, it’s not on them to surgically split your account into “offending” and “non-offending” parts, especially if they reach out to you to try to work with you to remove the offending parts and you don’t respond for two weeks.

There's no surgery involved and yes it is on them. Actually they retroactively did so when he complained, and as such they agreed that nuking everything was the wrong move.

Also, the “offending part” has been well known from them for several years (they even claim it costed them a lot in support over the years) so it's not like they received a DMCA and had to take everything down in a hurry, they knew exactly what product they wanted to stop because they did stop it because it was too costly. The fact that it violated their TOS is just the legal justification for the closure, not its source.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#154

Post by Brian_K_White »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #151
Brian_K_White wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with dns-over-https, it has to do with using cloudflare dns at all, over https or plain. In my case I added override rules in my opnsense router so that archive.is .ph .today .md are all resolved by a different nameserver. Disabling DOH can appear to fix it only in the happenstance case that the fallback plain dns doesn't end up using cloudflare, or doesn't use it first.

Why not using this instead? Too slow? https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls/ No issues with any archive-sites. Aside from not being censored at all, thereby enabling visiting sites which are blocked at DNS-level in some locations, there are several options for adblocking at DNS-level, too. Often eliminating the need for a Proxy or VPN to get access, with optional Adblock as a service. For free.…

What do you mean why not? The point is just to use anything other than cloudflare for archive.is, and mullvad is not cloudflare, so seems fine, go ahead.

There is no special reason not to use cloudflare dns in general though.

The problem is only between cloudflare and archive.is (and it's aliases) and it's hard to say if either side is wrong, except for the fact that either or both of them could figure out some special exception where they recognize each other's traffic if they cared to. Cloudflare are not censoring archive.is for example, and are not doing anything wrong.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#155

Post by raxi »

Axsuul wrote: post #127
karaterobot wrote: post #125

It seemed to me like 12ft.io was useful for a couple of months, but then stopped being useful as they agreed to blacklist more and more URLs. I thought everybody switched to archive.is, which (so far) works 100% of the time, even if it is sometimes a pain in the butt.

Is there an open source version of archive.is?

Just webrecorder + magnolia and you'll get something similar.

Maybe even better: magnolia outperforms archive.is on paywalls

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#156

Post by muttled »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #147
qingcharles wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly in Illinois it would be a crime to violate the TOS of a website. Misdemeanor for first offense, felony for second, IIRC.

Can’t be that simple. What if TOS has ridiculous shit in it. Stuff about life long servitude to the webmasters pet goldfish, for example?

Believe it or not, straight to jail.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#157

Post by muttled »

omoikane wrote: post #144
ForkMeOnTinder wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone else remember 10 years ago when Google would penalize sites for serving different content to GoogleBot than to normal users? Those were the days.

> Google would penalize sites for serving different content to GoogleBot than to normal users Listed under spam policies: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/essentials/spam-po... "Cloaking refers to the practice of presenting different content to users and search engines with the intent to manipulate search rankings and mislead users" The top of the pages says sites that violate the policies may "rank lower or…

It's infuriating when you see part of your desired information in the search results and then open the page to find a paywall. IIRC ExpertsExchange were doing that for a long enough time that it was obvious the policy was not enforced. At least not evenly.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#158

Post by godelski »

rahulroy9202 wrote: post #149
godelski wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure this is a good solution considering archive's fuckery

What did archive do?

There's a few links in sibling comments. But basically they are collecting some identifying data to try to optimize load times, but if they don't get that data they just reject the request instead of allowing for longer load times. Archive promises that they throw away that data and aren't tracking users but I mean why rely on trust? And as others point out, there are weird aspects of the code too so even if you trust what about mistakes? And btw, it isn't just cloudflare that's affected.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#159

Post by 2cpu1container »

boplicity wrote: post #105

Slightly edited "Why": Access to private property is an essential pillar of democracy and the safe proliferation of ideas. While property owners have legitimate financial interests, it is crucial to strike a balance between property and the public's right to access property. The proliferation of locks on doors raises concerns about the erosion of this fundamental freedom, and it is imperative for society to find inno…

Nice analogy. But with ladder, you're just wearing a Google shirt and get invited.

Re: Show HN: Ladder, open source alternative to 12ft.io and 1ft.io

#160

Post by fragmede »

godelski wrote: post #158
rahulroy9202 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did archive do?

There's a few links in sibling comments. But basically they are collecting some identifying data to try to optimize load times, but if they don't get that data they just reject the request instead of allowing for longer load times. Archive promises that they throw away that data and aren't tracking users but I mean why rely on trust? And as others point out, there are weird aspects of the code too so even if you trus…

that's the story Cloudflare wants you to buy.

Archive is intentionally violating copyright, and needs to know which country you're coming from, so they can serve you content from a country that isn't yours. they need that information to protect the service and keep it running.

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