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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#151

Post by polote »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles.

A free pass for what ?

You dont need a motor to reach 40kph on a bike, plenty of people can do it with only their legs. What we can do is limit the speed on bike lanes, but that means we could allow any vehicule on it. There is no reason a motorbike couldn't go on a bike lane if it goes slower than 20kh as most people on bike reach that speed.

It is not because you are on a bike that you have to go on a bike lane.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#152

Post by jacquesm »

glenjamin wrote: post #127
jacquesm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pedal assist e-bike. There are people that cheat and that install throttles so they can move without pedaling but that's a great way to get your vehicle confiscated. A typical ride has me providing 40 to 60% of the Joules and the remainder comes out of the battery. If there is a very heavy wind up (not rare here) that might drop to 30/70 and if I have a tailwind it is the reverse. The bike has a nice stats…

Looking at those power numbers, I can't help but wonder how much you'd gain by doing this sort of modification on a bike that is more efficient and/or aerodynamic even without the motor attached. A touring bike frame with 700c wheels and a more stretched out position would likely allow you to travel at the same speed for lower total power output - and make your battery go further (or not require such a large battery)…

There are velomobiles here, and also e-bike versions of those that go wicked fast. They also ride on the bike paths. I think they're quite dangerous because they are so low that you are riding below the height of a car hood (or a mirror for that matter).

Here is a picture of one:

http://dutchbikes.nl/artwork2/kv4/passing.jpg

and a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcy7EVRpXc

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#153

Post by nybble41 »

twodave wrote: post #38

Awesome project Jacques! I saw a comment of yours on an article a day or two ago and was hoping to see this pop up soon. I've found the most difficult thing about riding an e-bike is the other motorists have no idea how to react to you. You're not really a regular bicycle anymore due to your speed, but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane. I have at least one car turn in front of me almost every tr…

> You're not really a regular bicycle anymore due to your speed…

The top speed (with assist) for class 1 & 2 e-bikes is well within the speed range of a regular bicycle. 15 MPH is considered a reasonable average speed for beginners, and 18-22 MPG is not out of the question with training. I've ridden my own e-bike past 20 MPH with no assist on occasion, and being a foldable model designed for electric assist it has a higher mass, smaller (20") wheel radius, higher rolling resistance (due to low-pressure 3-4" tires), and lower gearing than your typical non-electric commuter bike.

> … but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane.

Bicycles should have their own lane, whether electric or not, regardless of speed. It's not safe to share the lane with another vehicle.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#154

Post by lapetitejort »

dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: post #29
nousermane wrote: post #11

> S-Pedelec (...) top speed 45 kph (...) in many places you are forced to ride in traffic Yes. This is the way. Thank you, Dutch government. If somebody feels like wheezing an almost completely silent 200kg projectile, godspeed. But please gtfo from the urban bike paths, if at all possible.

All the speed of motorcycles without the sound awareness, what could possibly go wrong? My overall experience is that E-bike riders generally have decent cycling manners, it's the scooter and unicycle riders that seem to think they can just crank their walking speed up to 30mph and go everywhere a pedestrian would. I usually just give them a firm "heads up next time" when I get buzzed by an electric motor whine at 20…

> unicycle riders

You probably mean "one wheel" riders? (As in the electric, low profile, self balancing type, not the traditional large wheel, seated, fixed axle unicycle) Unless you live around an inordinate amount of rude unicyclists. In that case, I must see that as it sounds very humorous.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#155

Post by jacquesm »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #133
davidw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles. As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, they're still a big win in terms of transportation: way less carbon usage and occupies less space.

> As long as they'r not causing problems for other cyclists, They cause problems. Maybe not every e-motorcycle rider, but most of them take full advantage of the power to out-accelerate other bikers and double the top speed of everyone around them. Bike paths were design with typical cyclist speeds in mind. It's not uncommon to see a young kid flying down our local bike paths at 40mph or more on a modded e-bike, forc…

E-bikes should stay off trails. And in NL it is forbidden to use e-bikes on paths marked cyclists only, which is all of the scenic routes (the difference is the rectangular 'fietspad' sign versus the iconic blue one).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#157

Post by freshpots »

jacquesm wrote: post #101
llampx wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you both can be correct. The more expensive e-bikes as sold in the EU are DRM'd to the hilt, whereas cheaper bikes sold elsewhere or assembled from kits won't have any restrictions. On reddit/r/ebikes you can see some crazy builds that would get you a hefty fine in most of Europe.

I did write 'these bikes', as in Bosch based e-bikes, specifically s-pedelecs. It is pretty obvious I'm only talking about this kind of bike, not about 'all bikes out there including those in other countries and cobbled together from parts'.

No, this became about you, personally. It is unfortunate that you are unaware of that.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#158

Post by temp_praneshp »

moralestapia wrote: post #61

Love it, glad to see you keep doing nice stuff, Jacques. Also glad to see there are still real makers in the world. Makers do, period. Another type of person would've asked for 10M of seed funding for "a revolutionary way to commute to work, target market: the whole world" and would've delivered nothing after 2 years of "working really hard on it".

And then there are people like you and me who do neither and spend time talking shit on HN.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#159

Post by jacquesm »

nybble41 wrote: post #125
jacquesm wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did write 'these bikes', as in Bosch based e-bikes, specifically s-pedelecs. It is pretty obvious I'm only talking about this kind of bike, not about 'all bikes out there including those in other countries and cobbled together from parts'.

No one else was taking specifically about Bosch systems (edit: in the comments, not the article ) until you came along, and your original reply didn't mention them by name. There are lots of e-bikes out there, including pure "pedelecs" with no hand-operated throttle, which do not use Bosch parts and do not have torque sensors. They assist when the pedals are moving, not when you're applying pressure.

The article is mine. And that's the context in which you can read my comments.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#160

Post by jacquesm »

jodrellblank wrote: post #146
jacquesm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, without the pedals it's no longer a bicycle but a moped. We have e-mopeds already and there are plenty of rules for those.

I just twigged from this thread that “moped” is motor+pedal. Now I’m annoyed that in the UK we use “moped” for Vespa style scooters which have no pedals. (I was already mildly annoyed that we use “scooter” for Vespa style vehicles which you sit on and are entirely motorised, when it really describes the variant skateboard with handlebars you stand on using one foot and ‘scoot’ along using the other foot for propulsio…

Yes, scooter is heavily overloaded. I had that problem recently when writing a report and realized that there are actually three different classes of vehicle and they're all called scooters.
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