Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#151

Post by 4sellff » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

tkiolp4 wrote: post #106

I don’t want a score associated with my name, so I wouldn’t use your service. I wonder how many people would like to have an associated “trust” score; I mean if you are an average individual I imagine you would get an average score of, let’s say, 5 over 10... you’ll look ridiculously untrustworthy compared to someone who has a score of 9/10. At least in the real world you have a chance to prove that you could be as t…

Valid point and I understand the concern. However [at least in the USA] we are all scored in many different ways. This includes: credit scores, insurance scores, criminal scores, employer/employee scores, education scores, etc. Yes, these examples are private and only visible to certain people [unless hacked]. Whereas the SELLFF TRU Score is public and visible to everyone. We have been transparent about how the value is determined and what it means. It is an indicator of trust and reputation, not an absolute value.

For many of the reasons you stated, we chose a much larger range of values. So, instead of 1-10 or 1-100, we selected 100 - 1,000 with a starting value of 400.

In anything we do, there is the starting point from which you determine if adjustments are needed. If the TRU Score is deemed to be in error or unfair or inaccurate, we will make the needed changes.

It is also worth noting that people who are selling services and trying to reach new customers are looking for new/better ways to connect. It is our belief that SELLFF can become an additional, valuable option for these providers. Instead of having a reliance on the mega platforms that might have already lost out trust.

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#152

Post by 4sellff » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:50 AM UTC

mleonhard wrote: post #124

tkiolp4 wrote: post #106

I don’t want a score associated with my name, so I wouldn’t use your service. I wonder how many people would like to have an associated “trust” score; I mean if you are an average individual I imagine you would get an average score of, let’s say, 5 over 10... you’ll look ridiculously untrustworthy compared to someone who has a score of 9/10. At least in the real world you have a chance to prove that you could be as t…

Second. I want a LinkedIn that respects its users. Sellff doesn't need to make a product that is much different from LinkedIn. 1. Let me make an online resume, publicly connect with past colleagues, and give and receive recommendations and skills endorsements. 2. Sell job postings. 3. Sell search tools for jobs & candidates. 4. Don't trick people into uploading their contacts. 5. Don't provide an Invite All feature.…

Thank you for your comments. We have similar thoughts it seems and both see the larger opportunity to provide value to professionals. Are you interested to discuss offline? Thx.

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#153

Post by indymike » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:51 AM UTC

Can't sign up. Broken. No error, just spins and quits spinning.

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#154

Post by monkeynotes » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:54 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #54

monkeynotes wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's driving this new surge of cash?

corporate welfare in the form of immense cash injections, forgivable loans, immaterial interest rates, downright lovable tax policy, and an accelerating crap-ton of captured regulation (like lockdowns heavily favoring the largest businesses). all without any structural reform so that that excess isn't hoovered up by the already wealthy.

This is fascinating. It kinda sounds very unstable though. Like how does a pandemic ruptured economy somehow come out looking better than it was pre pandemic?

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#155

Post by JetAlone » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:58 AM UTC

AshleighBasil wrote: post #95

CognitiveLens wrote: post #93

Interesting take on the challenge of determining professional trust. Seeing pictures of 3 white/European males on the homepage might turn off a more diverse audience of users, however - even if it's representative of the early adopters, it's important to present the product more inclusively.

Does this work inverted? Would showing only brown people drive away white users, or are white people a special, universal race that doesn't need to be coddled? I'm not trying to troll or be obnoxious, I'm curious how people think about this. Does tokenism really make people feel included, or does it just give white people something to be moral and self-deprecatingly righteous about? I'm Mexican and when americans do…

If I was one of the only White people on say a job platform, and I was treated with the same level of respect, dignity and fairness as everybody else, I genuinely don't think it would bother me. That's what everybody reasonable wants, respect, dignity and fairness, and that's what I want to give to the Black, Brown, Indigenous and Asian people in our world. My understanding is that if someone truly wants something else such as domination, then yes, normal racial tensions will foment and cascade into hate and suspicion, making it harder and more painful for everyone to give or receive that respect, dignity and fairness, even where someone's actively trying to give it. Different nations and systems have had to deal with multiculturalism in the past, some of them dealt with it better and some of them worse. Our communications technology has created an inconvenient shift in terrain, but there have been other societal shifts, and chapters in history much worse, so I have some optimism about it.

Mind you I'm also not 'normal' in terms of faith let alone ethnic demography where I live, plus I'm what they call "neurodivergent". I've grown up being very, very accustomed to being out of place one way or another. Maybe it would bother White people who are very used to being in the majority where they live and work, and can't cope with a stronger subliminal desire for ingroup dominanance. Dominance is comfortable for the dominator, and we have a nasty habit of liking comfort, so, to get a little religious, we do have to resist the flesh and aim for higher values found in sacrificial love.

I'm genuinely curious what it's like for you being Mennonite in Mexico. How does it affect your life?

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#156

Post by banana_giraffe » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

4sellff wrote: post #149

null0pointer wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically I might be inclined to believe someone with too high a trust score is actually less trustworthy because they tried too hard to optimise for it.

As designed, there is no direct way to influence the TRU Score in any meaningful way. A person could theoretically make 100's of trades every day and post dozens of messages, reviews, etc. This would have some impact on the TRU Score, but nothing significant over a time period of less than 6 - 12 months. As is true in the real world, when making decisions about the people to work with, we all use a variety of inputs.…

> As designed, there is no direct way to influence the TRU Score in any meaningful way

If I cannot influence my TRU Score, then it's not really a reflection of anything about me, is it?

The screenshots I've seen of your site suggest you give this score the most prominent position on info cards about people. This suggests to me you are designing the site to let people use this information first and foremost in making decisions.

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#157

Post by JetAlone » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

mleonhard wrote: post #126

4sellff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have tried to be very clear on how the TRU Score is determined [hover over the number and you will see a tooltip/modal that provides details]. Obviously, sharing the actual algorithm would most certainly allow people to game the system. A couple of other items to consider: [1] The TRU Score is updated 1x day [2] The TRU Score is a very slow moving value [3] As designed, it would likely take years for a member to m…

You have built a social credit system [0]. Such systems harm individuals and society. I think you overestimate the willingness of people to participate in such a system. And if you succeed in manipulating enough users into joining, would your conscience make you miserable? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

Mleonhard's is a very important post, right here. If adopted widely enough, I could easily see this becoming a somewhat decentralized corporate version of the government credit score system seen in China. Get publically punished with a low score for speaking up about wanting better conditions. Do extra overtime and attend corporate events with extra enthusiasm? Rewarded with a pittance of points instead of money. Maybe you'll become rich one day if you have a good score, but more realistically, you gain a minor buffer to keep you from hitting unemployability. We already have to deal with enough of this in meatspace without the the entire federated corporatocracy having access to a free panopticon so they know they know exactly how much to exploitatively nickle-and-dime you on your next opportunity.

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#158

Post by thomasfromcdnjs » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

mleonhard wrote: post #124

tkiolp4 wrote: post #106

I don’t want a score associated with my name, so I wouldn’t use your service. I wonder how many people would like to have an associated “trust” score; I mean if you are an average individual I imagine you would get an average score of, let’s say, 5 over 10... you’ll look ridiculously untrustworthy compared to someone who has a score of 9/10. At least in the real world you have a chance to prove that you could be as t…

Second. I want a LinkedIn that respects its users. Sellff doesn't need to make a product that is much different from LinkedIn. 1. Let me make an online resume, publicly connect with past colleagues, and give and receive recommendations and skills endorsements. 2. Sell job postings. 3. Sell search tools for jobs & candidates. 4. Don't trick people into uploading their contacts. 5. Don't provide an Invite All feature.…

I've been on and off attempting to make a linked in competitor that is exactly this.

Won't finish it anytime soon but might heat it up in a year or so.

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#159

Post by firepoet » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:29 AM UTC

I can't help but attempt to apply Kant's categorical imperative to this approach. Is this something I would wish as a universal rule?

What about folks who have really bad luck and participate in organizations that are a bad fit for their personality? Their score immediately goes down, and then the odds of them finding a better fit plummet. There is no "fresh start," so to speak.

If everybody used this system to make a judgment about whether a person is worthy, it feels like we would immediately create a permanent caste system. There would be social outcasts that would only work with other outcasts, because, frankly who else would want to? They are, in a word, untouchable.

So, for me, it appears this system is unethical to the extreme.

Happy to be proved wrong, of course!

Re: Show HN: I built a zero-cost, ad-free alternative to LinkedIn

#160

Post by 4sellff » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

mleonhard wrote: post #126

4sellff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have tried to be very clear on how the TRU Score is determined [hover over the number and you will see a tooltip/modal that provides details]. Obviously, sharing the actual algorithm would most certainly allow people to game the system. A couple of other items to consider: [1] The TRU Score is updated 1x day [2] The TRU Score is a very slow moving value [3] As designed, it would likely take years for a member to m…

You have built a social credit system [0]. Such systems harm individuals and society. I think you overestimate the willingness of people to participate in such a system. And if you succeed in manipulating enough users into joining, would your conscience make you miserable? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

I do not agree that we are building a social credit system. There are some similarities to what is happening in China, but SELLFF is fundamentally different in almost every way.

To anyone who is interested in comparing the differences, you can find 100's of links from your favorite search engine.

If we step back a moment and look at this objectively, we are only focused on matching buyers and sellers. It's a marketplace for people who sell/offer services and people who buy/need services. For a marketplace to function, there needs to be access to information so that both parties [buyers and sellers] are on an equal footing. Else, one party would have an advantage over the other.

Everything we are doing is focused on making the buyer/seller interaction easier and more efficient. It seems the TRU Score is a concern evident in many of the comments. Yet, how is this different [or worse] than star ratings on Yelp, Amazon or any other rating service. Other than the initial calculations that comprise the score, all changes in the scores are based on the community of members.

I believe many members of SELLFF can obtain significant value if all they do is post "services offered" and "services needed." The application will "match" the parties so they can interact and decide if working together makes sense.

Is SELLFF different? Yes, in some ways [Ex. trading shares of people]. But isn't that part of the opportunity when creating something new? Why do the same thing as everyone else is doing? Do you really feel fulfilled when you follow or like someone? Does the opportunity to "invest" in someone appeal to you? Do you see any advantage?

Is SELLFF better than existing solutions? Maybe? Can SELLFF to iterate to meet the needs of buyers and sellers. For sure! Is SELLFF a social credit system. No, not even close.