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Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

density.io

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Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#141

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

nemik wrote: post #132
escobar wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not much actual information available (this should be concerning), but there have been some clues dropped into past HN threads. This is a picture posted in another HN thread of their "original sensor" which is just 2 basic IR sensors: https://s3.amazonaws.com/screenshots.angel.co/73/340163/7982... As far as I can tell from the updated website, the new sensor is the same thing, just dressed up nicer. Each sens…

Hmm, look's like Vishay's VCNL3020 in there? Or the good ol' Sharp GP2Y0A21YK0F. Left wondering why you need a base controller and the dual-PIR's though, especially if the PIR's are connected to DC voltage anyway and not battery-powered like some other commentor said. I get you would wanna use wifi to talk up to your cloud and maybe that's what the base is for. But seems like a waste if you got something expensive li…

Using an Rpi gets you to market much, much faster. Then optimize for cost after it gets popular.

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#142

Post by geofft »

Nadya wrote: post #127
icelancer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what reason? This is easily bypassed.

If you visit his website [0] it's (at least I hope) intentionally poor designed, everything terrible straight from the late 90's in web design. From marquee, blinking, embedded mp3, and more. There's a built-in bypass in the site.js to allow the context menu if shift is held, though you still get the alert. Or it's just that holding shift allows the context menu to appear after the alert. I don't actually know. docum…

That is an amazing website, including the MP3-rendered MIDI, and I'm now pretty sure the comment was a joke that everyone missed :)

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#143

Post by bryans »

afar wrote: post #140
bryans wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should probably readjust your tact for any more comments today and in the future. Making insults, implications or even allegations about a competitor is never going to be in your company's best interest. It is just basic marketing and public relations. Don't try to sell people on your competition being lesser, even if it's true (which it is apparently not, in this case). That does absolutely nothing to se…

You're right. It was an unprofessional comment. I was flippant and insulting. You are also certainly right to be disappointed, off-put, and impressed with how PM responded. Product of tiredness and being trigger-happy with the reply button today. Apologies to dfine and Placemeter.

It happens. And I didn't mean to publicly shame you, either. There just happens to not be private messages here, so public was the only option.

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#145

Post by afar »

bryans wrote: post #143
afar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. It was an unprofessional comment. I was flippant and insulting. You are also certainly right to be disappointed, off-put, and impressed with how PM responded. Product of tiredness and being trigger-happy with the reply button today. Apologies to dfine and Placemeter.

It happens. And I didn't mean to publicly shame you, either. There just happens to not be private messages here, so public was the only option.

No worries. I totally earned that one.

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#146

Post by jondubois »

afar wrote: post #138
Animats wrote: post #76

The site is rather vague. They provide the hardware and install it for free, which implies they're selling data to someone else. Who? There's no privacy policy. No terms of service. The "order" button just brings up a blank email. How does the device tell how many people are present based on counting at a doorframe? Is it counting people passing through the door? Does it detect direction? Is it good enough to estimat…

[Density founder here] Hey Animats, sorry it took me all day to get to your list of questions. > which implies they're selling data to someone else. Who? Typically our customers are startups who sell to SMBs (coffee shops, bars, restaurants, museums, etc). They charge merchants anywhere between $50-$500/mo/location for some kind of software or service. These are startups that sell POS systems, loyalty software, marke…

>> Is it good enough to estimate the number of people inside by subtracting out counts from in counts?

> Yes. It's better than just an estimate

What if someone waved their hand in front of it (in a particular direction) in an attempt to subvert it? Couldn't someone trick it into over-reporting or under-reporting the number of people inside?

What if someone is standing idle in front of it (near the door frame) for a few minutes and in the meantime a large number of other people walk in? Will it miss them?

What if two or more people walked in at the same time with no gap between them?

Most importantly: How would the counter ever be able to correct itself from inaccuracies?

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#148

Post by x5n1 »

Flammy wrote: post #129
ihsw wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's extremely useful -- most establishments have a general idea of foot traffic (ie: POS transactions or qualitative visual assessment) whereas with density.io you have a detailed history of when and where there's foot traffic. Why would someone want to know this information? Ideas abound! I don't think we've had such easy measurement and monitoring at the fingertips of the general populace. Having detai…

Oh the data itself is interesting, but not particularly sell-able to others, in my opinion. The alternative to this platform are little devices that monitor things like cellphones that walk into the room, and use this to approximate occupancy.

It is. If you had a competitor who got most of their business around 8pm on Tuesday. You could offer huge savings at 8pm on Tuesdays driving away traffic from their business.

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#149

Post by thwest »

pkelchte wrote: post #97
thwest wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly accurate and anonymous seem to be at tension here. A discussion on your signal processing would be illuminating.

We made our own AIR door counter, composed of a few distance sensors. It can tell us in which direction a person is passing, and gives a distance profile that we process to distinguish individual people. Technically, we measure your circumference to some degree, but you might agree that is far from enough to compromise your anonimity.

AIR being active infrared as opposed to passive (or a particular waveband)?

Anonymity is a more interesting problem than "can distance sensors uniquely identify a passerby among 500M North Americans" as your reply implies. What if you are the roundest or tiniest person in town? All the sudden you are uniquely identifiable.

You're early in development, and I bet whoever did the circumference estimation has more in mind. I imagine you could make a good estimation of a person's height from your data: whether the profile sees knees hips or hands. Can you identify the asymmetric waist bulge of a CHL carrier? Does your infrared band penetrate polyesters but not cotton? I hope the reader's feature-vector blood is flowing at this point.

Your page needs to have way more formalization around the concept of anonymity (outside of the registration required area) for me to feel that you are appreciating the problem from an engineering perspective and not a marketing one.

Re: Show HN: Density – Anonymous People Counter and API

#150

Post by thwest »

kefka wrote: post #85
eevilspock wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, privacy, schmiravacy. That horse has done gone left the barn. So you're using the slippery slope as justification and welcome sign instead of warning. The world is all downhill from here exactly because people don't have the integrity and courage to resist. Also

Slippery slope? Humans already can do classification. Should we ban humans from identifying and counting other humans? I can hire 2 guards who can remember people by taking a photo. And then I can have them recall who shows up. With people. All my project does is substitute a computer for human. The only reason why we don't do the above is because people cost a lot more. Computer software and cycles are cheap. And th…

You see, humans have judgement, and obvious presence. I don't mind George and Jim remembering I was at the pub on Tuesday, because they will consider who to reveal that information to before they do. (A pub I don't think anyone would be at if there were two guards photographing everyone). These giant piles of databases are open for everyone.
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