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Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

prismml.com

141–150 of 181 posts

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#141

Ran this prompt: Share an interesting scientific discovery or historical fact that most people don't know about. Please explain why it's significant and its impact on our understanding. Got this nonsense answer: Interesting Scientific Discovery: The Discovery of the "Boson" in 1924 by Charles K. Alton ("Chuck") Alton What it is: In 1924, American physicist Charles K. Alton discovered the "boson", a particle that woul…

Really funny how it multiplexes together in a quasi-random order very short excerpts from the true descriptions of various discoveries made by Bose, Einstein, Fermi, Dirac, Yukawa and a few others into a completely nonsense text.

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#142
This looks very promising. It would be cool if support for Bonsai-style models would land in mainline MLX soon, looking forward to trying it out.

It seems PrismML has implemented a better version of an idea I had a while back: what if we had a 1-bit model where the scale of the weight is determined by its position. The model would have to be trained from the ground up for this though, which is why I never tried it. The interleaved scale factor approach of Bonsai is a much more flexible approach at almost the same cost.

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#143
post #15
post #14

What’s the trade-off? If it’s smaller, faster and more efficient - is it worse performance? A layman here, curious to know.

Their own (presumably cherry picked) benchmarks put their models near the 'middle of the market' models (llama3 3b, qwen3 1.7b), not competing with claude, chatgtp, or gemini. These are not models you'd want to directly interact with. but these models can be very useful for things like classification or simple summarization or translation tasks. These models quite impressive for their size: even an older raspberry pi…

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Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#144
post #29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must add that I also tried out the standard "should I walk or drive to the carwash 100 meters away for washing the car" and it made usual error or suggesting a walk given the distance and health reasons etc. But then this does not claim to be a reasoning model and I did not expect, in the remotest case, for this to be answered correctly. Ever previous generation larger reasoning models struggle with this

I ran it through a rudimentary thinking harness, and it still failed, fwiw: The question is about the best mode of transportation to a car wash located 100 meters away. Since the user is asking for a recommendation, it's important to consider practical factors like distance, time, and convenience. Walking is the most convenient and eco-friendly option, especially if the car wash is within a short distance. It avoids…

Honestly, the fact that we have models that can coherently reason about this problem at all is a technological miracle. And to have it runnable in a 1.15GB memory footprint? Is insanity.

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#145
post #29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must add that I also tried out the standard "should I walk or drive to the carwash 100 meters away for washing the car" and it made usual error or suggesting a walk given the distance and health reasons etc. But then this does not claim to be a reasoning model and I did not expect, in the remotest case, for this to be answered correctly. Ever previous generation larger reasoning models struggle with this

I ran it through a rudimentary thinking harness, and it still failed, fwiw: The question is about the best mode of transportation to a car wash located 100 meters away. Since the user is asking for a recommendation, it's important to consider practical factors like distance, time, and convenience. Walking is the most convenient and eco-friendly option, especially if the car wash is within a short distance. It avoids…

And to be fair, you asked about traveling to a location. It just so happens that location is a car wash. You didn't say anything about wanting to wash the car; that's an inference on your part. A reasonable inference based on human experience, sure, but still an inference. You could just as easily want to go to the car wash because that's where you work, or you are meeting somebody there.

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#146
Interesting parallel to spiking neural networks — they're essentially 1-bit communication (spike or no spike) with analog membrane potentials. We use 5k Izhikevich neurons for quadruped locomotion control and they beat PPO at the same sample budget. The efficiency argument for 1-bit goes beyond LLMs.

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they're natively trained with 1 bit, so it's not losing anything. Now, the question might be how they manage to get decent predictive performance with such little precision. That I don't know.

Not training. Transposing rows/columns of matrices to group 128 parameters with similar (shared) scale factor. Qwen-3 model.

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please elaborate?

Re: Show HN: 1-Bit Bonsai, the First Commercially Viable 1-Bit LLMs

#149
post #134

Feels a bit like gradually moving back toward analog circuits, step by step. There is less and less need for the precision that digital circuits provide.

What ? How did you come to this conclusion with this context ?

Traditional programming requires the absolute precision provided by digital circuits; a single bit flip can lead to a completely different outcome.

Large models do not require that kind of exactness. They are somewhat like a "field" or a "probability cloud": as long as the main directional tendency is correct, a few individual deviations—or even a whole cluster of them—make almost no difference.

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