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Show HN: Free Company Logo API

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Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#131
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathise with your perspective, but surely some of those needs (colour theory, contrast, etc) can be solved algorithmically and others (public perception and brand "feel") could be automatically tested by a site/script surveying users in the target segment.

You need someone creative to generate the good ideas to be used in the first place. Random mutation and A/B would surely take millenia, even assuming huge traffic in the first place. And even then, one of the internal criticisms of A/B at Amazon was that it helped refine local optima (e.g. a next button in a checkout cart) but is weak on a holistic view (whole page, user experience), and making larger innovative jump…

(My sympathy stems from me doing a lot of design work so I'm not approaching this from a "design is useless" aspect.)

Do you think that what's out there already could serve as a fairly good starting place? Run them past users to work out which out of thousands of logos are effective. Then isolate components (marks, text, etc) and test those, plus random combinations of the same.

I can appreciate the value in very high level brand creation, but I also think you can get 90% of the way there at 1% of the budget for many businesses. A remotely competent designer can slap down a shape and choose a font for the text and beat half the small business logos out there in a few minutes.

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#132
post #33

This has been done before (and posted to HN), and it had the same problem. Way too many false positives, especially with older sites. https://logo.clearbit.com/starfoods.com

This isn't trying to scrape the page and find something vaguely logo-like. Rather, it seems to be using iOS, OpenGraph and Twitter icons. In this case, the site has a strange OpenGraph image specified in its meta tags. If it produces a weird image it's because the site owner has specified an image which isn't their logo. It's not because the API picked a random image. For this service, if it can find an image, it's a…

I wouldn't have thought that the open graph image is a logo. Seems like that wouldn't be a reliable source for logos

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#133
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need someone creative to generate the good ideas to be used in the first place. Random mutation and A/B would surely take millenia, even assuming huge traffic in the first place. And even then, one of the internal criticisms of A/B at Amazon was that it helped refine local optima (e.g. a next button in a checkout cart) but is weak on a holistic view (whole page, user experience), and making larger innovative jump…

(My sympathy stems from me doing a lot of design work so I'm not approaching this from a "design is useless" aspect.) Do you think that what's out there already could serve as a fairly good starting place? Run them past users to work out which out of thousands of logos are effective. Then isolate components (marks, text, etc) and test those, plus random combinations of the same. I can appreciate the value in very hig…

Not really, for two reasons:

1. You don't have the users to test yet.

2. This is what really makes it untenable - what is the logo for, what does effective mean, 90% of where? This is why brand creation is expensive as hell. There's a lot of work involved and by definition it is bespoke and without shortcuts. That's the whole point or it wouldn't be brand creation in any sense. When you see a logotype, it's just the tip of the iceberg.

I suspect that a lot of people might think of branding as including these cheap services where an underpaid young offshore photoshop whizz throws together an infinity symbol, dolphin, or generic swoosh and even goes so far as to hand kern some text (and bear in mind that even this kind of junior typographic task can't be automated yet).

I would argue that this isn't a ghetto version of the kind of branding that a large company does, but a cargo cult version. The logotype part is highly visible but is the tiniest component of branding - it is superficial and meaningless in isolation. Very much unlike this process, real branding is about discovering and generating an extremely high input of info and ideas and turning this into a very small and focused output, articulating the essence. (And of course a big part of the cost for a large org is that you often need to cover things like web, print, letterheads, reports, sides of trucks, and so on. All whilst maintaining brand consistency.)

Assuming you can't afford to pay for full branding, I think the best solution is to do just enough (e.g. many here might just need something for digital and business cards) and for it to be done by someone close to the company owner of even the owner themselves, as they will live and breathe what the company is for and what makes it distinct. Even poorly executed, this will communicate a much clearer story and have real value imo (trying to avoid the word authentic here but it's probably applicable).

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#134
Wish there was an equivalent service but with masked images of wine bottles. Always wanted to create something like Delicious Monster but for wine cellars. All the sites/apps doing it are pretty ugly or largely text based.

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same thing but as a designer I had the opposite reaction. I was prepared to be offended.

Why in the world would this offend you?

I am trying to think of a good word to encapsulate this concept.

Its the difference between Picasso's line drawings and a child's scribble, the difference between a maguro and otoro cut of tuna, the difference between a script kiddy's work and the sophistication of stuxnet. To a laymen they are the pretty much indistinguishable. But for those who have the experience to know the difference, suggesting the two are equivalent is fairly ridiculous.

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in the world would this offend you?

Two reasons: 1. It degrades design as a profession. It's essentially saying that logo design can be done by an algorithm. "There's no creativity to it". Wouldn't you be offended if someone said a basic algorithm could eliminate your job? (perhaps you wouldn't) 2. It's an overly simplistic view of what a logo/brand identity is. You can't just pick out some basic shapes and text for your logo. You need color theory, co…

I agree, and to amplify: while there are surely aspects of design that can be automated, the part that's difficult is that a design should actually mean something. Having an algorithmically designed logo tie the room together -- crystallize a company's business and culture, and provide a memorable rallying point -- that's the hard part. Computer-generated design is like a ghostly thread of expression of the design sensibilities of the writers of the software from which it emerges.

Consider the hidden arrow in the "Ex" of FedEx, when they rebranded from "Federal Express"; the rational propeller of BMW; even something as simple as the Burger King logo being sandwiched in a hamburger bun. Granted, logo design is just one small corner of design in general, but algorithmically generated logos do indeed result in a herd of swooshes, globes, and rings orbiting bold text (notwithstanding the similar designs of many humans who fail to recruit sufficient creativity or inspiration). Some of these can even be aesthetically pleasing, but it's so much better when a logo is retrospectively obvious and actually means something.

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#138
post #47

Instead of relying on FB, Twitter, Company's site for the logo, wouldn't it be better to create a "Company Logo Service" with an API, with the below features - 0. Change at one place, make it work everywhere. (consistent branding across the wild web). 1. Upload your company logo here with us. 2. Multiple versions. 3. Multiple sizes. 4. Control and Connect various sizes, versions with your various social accounts, new…

Absolutely. Would pay money for this!

The question is: how much?

Re: Show HN: Free Company Logo API

#139
post #35

I honestly thought this was going to generate a free logo and got really excited for some unknown reason? I guess I was wondering how it all worked, then I clicked through and it made way more sense. That was a wild ride!

I thought the same thing but as a designer I had the opposite reaction. I was prepared to be offended.

I see two scenarios 1) If the logos themselves are as good as a real designer's work (I doubt it) great, I pick that logo. Sucks for designers but design is a much wider field than creating pretty logos.

2) If it isn't I can rapidly prototype my basic ideas and take them to a designer. This is excellent and I'd embrace this as a designer.

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