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Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

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Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#131

Post by jonstaab »

pooper wrote: post #106
jonstaab wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's accessible by tor because it's primarily a bitcoin/lightning node. If you're not interested in that core value prop, umbrel isn't for you.

I am amazed to see people are interested in running Bitcoin nodes. As far as I know, none of the people I have talked to about Bitcoin or shit coins have any interest in running a full node. This is the thing that convinced me that cryptocurrency is a fad or worse a place people see to make a quick buck. When I looked into it, a Bitcoin node took over 300GB of space on your computer. I'd imagine that is over 600 GB n…

I run one, it's quite easy and reasonably cheap. I admit the main value prop is feeling smug about your opsec, but the self-sovereignty thesis and culture of bitcoin are genuinely important. A small minority of people (nerds) running their own nodes is a way to keep the wider network more honest and help regular people benefit from using it.

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#132

Post by jiscariot »

yebyen wrote: post #56
bee_rider wrote: post #24

Is this an OS or just a distro? They claim you can convert an Ubuntu install by just curl-ing their script, which makes me lean toward distro.

There is an OS in there, at least one, I haven't installed Umbrel but I know this is in it... (I can't believe all these comments and nobody mentioned Urbit yet!)

Shhhh. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#133

Post by 8fingerlouie »

aborsy wrote: post #123
8fingerlouie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And data recovery services would have a field day :) Self hosting in 2022 is not exactly a walk in the park. Besides the obvious security risks of data loss/theft through exploits, you also have a challenge making anything as redundant as a cloud service. Most major cloud services offer multi geographical redundancy, meaning if one data center completely vanishes (like the OVH fire), your data is safe in another data…

How did you calculate? With 20 cents/KWh 45×24×30×0.2/1000=2.6$/month

I have no idea how you arrived at $2.6, when i do the same calculation i end up with $6,48

45W for a month is 32.85 KWh (452430.4/1000), so i rounded up to 33 KWh.

Electricity where i live is currently averaging about €0.54/KWh, though this winter has seen prices as high as €1.14/KWh. Normal price is around €0.3.

33 * 0.54 = 17,8 ~= €18

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#134

Post by southerntofu »

ignoramous wrote: post #127
southerntofu wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, we migrated the Bitcoin node to the Umbrel App Store and took the last step in our transition to becoming an app-agnostic general purpose OS Hello, do you have plans to interop with an established selfhosting distro and package scheme? Yunohost, Freedombox and Libreserver come to mind. If you'd rather go the containerized/virtualized way, there's a dozen or so distros based on Docker/LXC/K8S to make selfhost…

> If you'd rather go the containerized/virtualized way, there's a dozen or so distros based on Docker/LXC/K8S to make selfhosting easier. Which ones do you have in mind? Would you count ChromeOS as one of those, too?

> Which ones do you have in mind? Would you count ChromeOS as one of those, too?

A few i had in mind (from my bookmarks): Cloudron, Sandstorm, HomelabOS, libre.sh, UBOS, Unraid, Helm, CasaOS, servers.coop's Capsul. In my opinion, in those virtualized solutions Sandstorm is the only one that's not a simple GUI for docker/LXC and had some actually interesting research going on (especially in terms of security). That's for generic selfhosting solutions, and i personally have no strong opinion about these as i'm more interested about bare-metal solutions that work on low-end hardware (Freedombox/Yunohost/LibreServer).

To this list you can add the free ansible/docker recipes used by friendly hosting coops such as webarch.coop or disroot.org. I'm guessing many other CHATONS.org/Libreho.st federation members also publish their recipes, but i wouldn't know for sure.

I don't count ChromeOS as anything as my understanding is it's just a web browser with a custom kernel? I may be missing something as i've never used it, and if i don't have the source code and/or have to pay Google a single cent to use it i most probably will never try it out.

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#135

Post by ignoramous »

southerntofu wrote: post #134
ignoramous wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you'd rather go the containerized/virtualized way, there's a dozen or so distros based on Docker/LXC/K8S to make selfhosting easier. Which ones do you have in mind? Would you count ChromeOS as one of those, too?

> Which ones do you have in mind? Would you count ChromeOS as one of those, too? A few i had in mind (from my bookmarks): Cloudron, Sandstorm, HomelabOS, libre.sh, UBOS, Unraid, Helm, CasaOS, servers.coop's Capsul. In my opinion, in those virtualized solutions Sandstorm is the only one that's not a simple GUI for docker/LXC and had some actually interesting research going on (especially in terms of security). That's…

Thanks for the pointers. Btw, you may want to give ChromeOS a second look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25884262

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#136

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

tjbiddle wrote: post #108
leodriesch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a License FAQ [0], in which it says: > Selling Umbrel, including selling cloud-hosted instances with Umbrel or its derivates, home server hardware with Umbrel or its derivates, support services for Umbrel or its derivates, etc is not permitted under our license. [0]: https://github.com/getumbrel/umbrel/wiki/License-FAQ

Sounds like it's against someone else selling Umbrel to you; Not you going to someone and saying "Set this up for me".

That sounds like a support service for Umbrel.

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#137

Post by pooper »

janandonly wrote: post #130
pooper wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am amazed to see people are interested in running Bitcoin nodes. As far as I know, none of the people I have talked to about Bitcoin or shit coins have any interest in running a full node. This is the thing that convinced me that cryptocurrency is a fad or worse a place people see to make a quick buck. When I looked into it, a Bitcoin node took over 300GB of space on your computer. I'd imagine that is over 600 GB n…

There have never been more people that run their own bitcoin/lightning node then there are right now. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31673886

I'm glad to see that there are sixteen thousand full nodes because the last I heard there were fewer than ten thousand.

I have never spent actual currency to get Bitcoin but I cannot imagine being serious enough about Bitcoin to put tens of thousands of dollars in Bitcoin but then putting that money in Coinbase or something like that. (sorry YC, I know I was wrong about Dropbox and but I think I am still correct about Coinbase).

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#138

Post by southerntofu »

ignoramous wrote: post #135
southerntofu wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which ones do you have in mind? Would you count ChromeOS as one of those, too? A few i had in mind (from my bookmarks): Cloudron, Sandstorm, HomelabOS, libre.sh, UBOS, Unraid, Helm, CasaOS, servers.coop's Capsul. In my opinion, in those virtualized solutions Sandstorm is the only one that's not a simple GUI for docker/LXC and had some actually interesting research going on (especially in terms of security). That's…

Thanks for the pointers. Btw, you may want to give ChromeOS a second look: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25884262

Thanks for the information! To be honest, i'm still not interesting to fall into anything maintained by Google, but i see the value you're proposing.

Personally, when it comes to desktop virtualization, i'm very happy with QubesOS. It's not designed for graphics performance, but it's to my knowledge the only distro providing decent security for multi-VM graphical workloads, and their research keeps going!

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#139

Post by aborsy »

8fingerlouie wrote: post #133
aborsy wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you calculate? With 20 cents/KWh 45×24×30×0.2/1000=2.6$/month

I have no idea how you arrived at $2.6, when i do the same calculation i end up with $6,48 45W for a month is 32.85 KWh (45 24 30.4/1000), so i rounded up to 33 KWh. Electricity where i live is currently averaging about €0.54/KWh, though this winter has seen prices as high as €1.14/KWh. Normal price is around €0.3. 33 * 0.54 = 17,8 ~= €18

Ops, yeah, that should be 6.48.

The difference lies in electricity price.

Re: Show HN: Umbrel – A personal server OS for self-hosting

#140

Post by pbronez »

kentonv wrote: post #32
mayankchhabra wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insightful reply. Everything you said makes total sense. Re noncommercial organizations being permitted users, this was a conscious decision on our part. We're purposefully building Umbrel purely for consumers, and don't plan to serve any commercial or noncommercial organizations. We want to align our incentives directly with consumers instead of enterprises, and this is purely to help us focus on buil…

I see. Well, I hope you are able to succeed at that. For what it's worth, we initially focused on consumer use but weren't able to find a path to revenue there. Despite a lot of noise on HN, we had only a few hundred signups for our paid hosting service. We built super-scalable hosting tech but it turned out we could have hosted them on a single big VM all along... oops. I think the problem is that the apps, while fu…

Thank you for your work on Sandstorm! I live in the highly-regulated, not-for-profit world. Sandstorm's architecture was very compelling for us. Self-hosting was a good place to start and the Capability-based Security solved a lot of problems.

I agree that the overall functionality for the apps wasn't quite up to snuff. The problem is, self-hosted apps are structurally under-resourced relative to their hosted peers. This is because SaaS providers can amortize development costs over a much bigger user base while simultaneously capturing operations efficiencies.

In my world, we want all the latest stuff, but refuse to let anyone host our data. We wind up with a small vendor pool that specializes in meeting regulatory requirements instead of making good software. I am very interested in finding technical solutions to this problem. Or at least, technical solutions that create new options to solve the operational and cultural problems!

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