Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

clerk.dev

131–140 of 234 posts

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#131

As someone who uses Django which has user management out of the box, why would I use a service like this?

Django does not have this feature-set out of the box, that's for sure.

I’ve recently customized django-allauth to perform all modern expected user flows and it is actually a lot of work.

Allauth itself is opinionated, and some things were built based on expectations that are not reflective of today’s web apps.

It can be done but the lift is much bigger than one might think.

I also think one of the most important parts of django is user/auth.

Seeing FastAPI and modern frontends continually advance, and now this user management service, I’d suggest that Django is getting unbundled.

The missing part to me seems to be a stand alone ORM and something to replace traditional view/templates so existing django devs could onboard easier. Maybe these already exist or are in development?

I really like Django, but I do feel like there has been too much emphasis on stability and not enough experimentation to integrate API and modern frontend work into core.

I think some of this has to do with how unstable django was in its earlier days. Sort of a ptsd from that.

However, what has been forgotten is that it also allowed the project to handle changing developer needs and take market share from Drupal and others.

The best example I have seen of this problem is in the ecommerce package, Solear.

If you listen to the project founders in the the 4/2019 Python podcast, “Building Scalable Ecommerxe Sites on Saleor” you can hear the use case of the project falling away as modern frontend is coming into focus. [1]

The challenge is that was two years ago.

I actually see this as a problem for Python even beyond Django.

[1] https://www.pythonpodcast.com/saleor-ecommerce-episode-205/

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#132
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you chose cookies for this versus localstorage JWT tokens. Kudos for that.

Out of curiosity, why are cookies preferred to local storage ?

Any JavaScript on the same origin can read localstorage IIRC.

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#133
post #89
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically MAU means "users that logged at some point during that billing month". That is, when you are billed based on MAU you don't pay for the number of users in your database, only for the ones that actually use your app/service/whatever.

Typically, that makes sense. Specifically, there's nothing on the website to indicate that is how they calculate MAU. The website is missing this critical bit of detail to inform would-be buyers.

The copy was updated to say:

> Our prices are based on your Monthly Active Users (MAUs) and not your entire userbase, so you only pay for logged in users who interact with your website during the course of the month.

Does this help clarify? Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#135
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Braden one of the founders. It's a good question, and a question that gets asked a lot. Out of curiosity would you trust a more established company like Auth0 or Firebase? We hope to gain developers trust over time, and we want to build a tool that makes it dramatically easier to build out session management, and a lot of these user flows. A similar question that was asked only a few (10?) years ago, was "why wo…

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would trust a service like this a lot more if i could easily export all my data. I would do so on a regular basis, basically as a backup. The other concern is what happens if you shut down or decide to change your plan to be prohibitively expensive? (I'm not implying that's the case for you, but it's a consideration that has to be made). There have been vendors in the past that ha…

Thanks for the comment and consideration. Noted on exporting, glad to know that would help on the trust front. Definitely something we should prioritize. Gaining trust is hard, and something we hope to do over time. We of course don't want to shut down, and want to be a go-to for small projects, which would mean keeping pricing low. We think we'll be able to do that by up-charging on the B2B feature set.

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#137
post #66

The pricing model has me confused: 1) Pricing is free up to 5,000 MAU 2) But the next pricing grade starts at 1,000 MAU for $49/mo + $0.05/MAU additional so if you have 5,001 MAU you take a big leap from $0 to $249/mo Is there a reason for that huge bump? Why doesn't the first pay tier start at 5,000 MAU? And how is MAU even calculated? Like, aren't all users in the system active users? Or are you able to have a bunc…

Hey all - looks like there's a lot of confusion on the pricing model here. That's our fault, sorry! The free plan does not include 2-step verification, and that was the reason for the increase in the paid plan. We'd love some feedback on how you'd like to see the free plan constructed. What would be most helpful for getting you started with Clerk?

You shouldn't make your users choose between MAU supported and features.

Here's how I would do the price tiers, since you asked:

* STARTER - Free up to 5,000 MAU, features as listed.

* STARTER PLUS - Add a credit card and just pay $29 plus $0.05 for each additional MAU over the first 5,000. Same features as listed for STARTER.

In this approach, MAU 0 - 5,000 is free, and MAU 5,001 is $29.05. In the Starter plus tier, 6000 MAU is $29 + $50 = $79 and 10,000 MAU is $29 + $250 = $279

* For the PRO tier, the jump is pretty dramatic between $29 and $249 for the same # of users, so I suggest a 2x rather than a 8x premium. This means that you should price pro at $49 plus $0.02 for all users. This makes 5001 users $49 + $100 = $149

In this arrangement you don't even need to have a 5000 starter cliff for Pro. You can start with pro at even 500 users if you wanted the MFA features and the cost would be just $49 + $10 = $59.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#138
So, first, congrats on launching your product. :) Personally, I don't have a need for it, and if I did, I'd be very reluctant to use a proprietary service, but I'm sure there are companies out there who will be happy to use you. Good luck!

------------

That said, maybe the HN community can answer something I've wondered about... Why isn't there an Open Source, standardized, self-hosted, version of this kind of service? Or, why hasn't one, or two, options emerged that everyone uses and I would have heard of by now?

User management, authentication, and authorization, are all problems that have been solved in many apps, and there are plenty of best practices. So, just like you shouldn't roll your own hashing algorithm, I'd think we'd want to do the same with this. It would make sense for one of the open source companies or organizations like Canonical, RedHat, Apache or Mozilla to have at least tried to do this.

The closest I can think of to an attempt is Persona...

Anyway, just been wondering about this for a while, and thought I'd take the opportunity to ask.

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#139
Have you considered offering an on-premise solution? Ideally a docker image you can easily stand up and point to a postgres DB.

I can only imagine using this "for real" if I could actually store the users in a database I manage. The last thing I want is to introduce a new 3rd party single-point-of-failure.

Re: Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not just authentication

#140
post #138

So, first, congrats on launching your product. :) Personally, I don't have a need for it, and if I did, I'd be very reluctant to use a proprietary service, but I'm sure there are companies out there who will be happy to use you. Good luck! ------------ That said, maybe the HN community can answer something I've wondered about... Why isn't there an Open Source, standardized, self-hosted, version of this kind of servic…

I haven't tried it but https://www.keycloak.org/ (by redhat) seems close to what you describe.
Post reply on HN