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Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

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Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#121

Post by asddubs »

archerx wrote: post #102
asddubs wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people did complain about it stealing GPL code scraped off github etc and then license laundering a lot, especially during the earlier days. I think now people are just worn down to have the conversation again. I do also think the threat is bigger to artists. Sloppy code will cause problems, and at some point you'll need someone who knows what's going on to step in. Sloppy art, a lot of people accept.

That's why artist should incorporate gen ai into their workflows. They have the artistic eye and separate the slop from the gold better than non artistic people. Also knowing composition and etc helps getting better results from Stable Diffusion, Flux and etc. I remember when 3D CG was new and it got so much hate for not being "real art". I heard the same drama happened when Photoshop and Illustrator hit the market,…

artists like making art and having some sense of intentionality, rather than just typing stuff in and then messing with it. that's the difference between cg and ai. you cannot cut intentionality out of the process and then just do tweaks to have it not be slop, at that point you cease saving time.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#122

Post by bigcat12345678 »

lyogavin wrote: post #54
bigcat12345678 wrote: post #51

Hmm The payment link does not require login And I paid and the credits vanished into thin air ... To the poster, please find the customer service to fix https://buy.stripe.com/cNicN59Bqf6K4q92Qrbwk00?prefilled_ema... Also, I cannot find my queuing job after closing the page.

sorry for the inconvenience. I've fixed it. ALso given your account 2x more credits.

Got the credits! Thanks!

I am researching the landscape for building a coding agent to generate social games, your tool is a nice coincidence.

Good luck with the product!

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#123

Post by Aeolun »

wrasee wrote: post #91
jason_oster wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automated assembly lines have the same properties. Same with transportation. Buses, trains, airplanes, ships. These all work tirelessly at a pace that humans cannot match. There is no fundamental difference.

I think you missed the point. The claim is that AI training from public information is no different from humans learning from public information. My argument is precisely that the mechanisation of information is fundamentally different from the scale at which a human can learn. One immediate consequence being there is no longer a natural brake on the scale of what can be sourced for use in a derivative work. To be cl…

I can agree that it’s different, but driving is not fundamentally different from walking, in that both get you from one place to another. Nobody drives to a place because it’s fundamentally different from walking there, they do it purely because it’s faster and leaves them less tired.

I think the same thing is true for AI. Or at least, for training or acting on public information. It’s not suddenly bad because you are able to do it on all information in existence at the same time.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#124

Post by Aeolun »

fourside wrote: post #89
Aeolun wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you didn’t want people to see and use it, maybe you shouldn’t have made it public? I don’t think training AI is fundamentally different from humans learning from things they see, and we don’t restrict that either.

When it’s big copyright holders we have very specific, very granular definitions of what constitutes fair or allowed use. But when it comes to smaller creators the answer is that it’s their fault for trying to promote their work and make a living.

No. It’s not fundamentally different. Big copyright holders are better at asserting their rights, and had their information under lock and key from the start, but I don’t think for a moment all these models haven’t been trained on all the content on the disney website (or all the websites with disney derative work).

Disney is just better at preventing the LLM companies from allowing it to regurgitate that stuff.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#125

Post by Aeolun »

bnop wrote: post #78
Aeolun wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you didn’t want people to see and use it, maybe you shouldn’t have made it public? I don’t think training AI is fundamentally different from humans learning from things they see, and we don’t restrict that either.

1. These models have been trained on private data many a time without permission 2. Making something public isn’t always a choice made by the creator 3. Making something public does not denote fair use, this is why copyright (albeit arguably a poor solution) exists 4. These LLMs consolidate wealth into a small group using outputs from a larger, often less wealthy group (creatives) without fair compensation

1. I’m disinclined to believe that purely because of the inconvenience of doing so. Much easier to scrape the entire internet.

2. How so? If you sell your stuff and someone makes it public, it’s still your choice to sell it.

3. That’s only true as far as recreating the content is concerned. Reading and viewing is by definition fair use for publicly visible information.

4. Define fair compensation. I feel like the creatives are just upset that their work is “easy” to replicate with these models. And that isn’t even true, they never appear as unique or interesting as truly new work.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#126

Post by Aeolun »

nkrisc wrote: post #117
Lerc wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but not an argument in itself. AI is also not American, A puppy, or a cardboard box full of fairies. Your underlying presumption is that there is some property of Humans that makes the distinction important. Without identifying that property it impossible to evaluate the merit of any claim about it.

I was replying to this, specifically: > I don’t think training AI is fundamentally different from humans learning from things they see, and we don’t restrict that either. It places humans and AI on equal footing, which I fundamentally object to. No, we do not restrict how humans learn, nor do I believe we should. I do believe we can, and ought, to have restrictions on how technology is used within human society. Thos…

> It's the tendency to equate humans and AI that I find both distasteful and potentially dangerous.

In the sense that they both consume information to learn, they seem remarkably similar.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#127

Post by bnop »

Aeolun wrote: post #125
bnop wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. These models have been trained on private data many a time without permission 2. Making something public isn’t always a choice made by the creator 3. Making something public does not denote fair use, this is why copyright (albeit arguably a poor solution) exists 4. These LLMs consolidate wealth into a small group using outputs from a larger, often less wealthy group (creatives) without fair compensation

1. I’m disinclined to believe that purely because of the inconvenience of doing so. Much easier to scrape the entire internet. 2. How so? If you sell your stuff and someone makes it public, it’s still your choice to sell it. 3. That’s only true as far as recreating the content is concerned. Reading and viewing is by definition fair use for publicly visible information. 4. Define fair compensation. I feel like the cre…

1. If scraping the entire internet is easier, but doesn’t give me as good of results as including private or licensed data, I will train my LLM on private data or lose the race. It is not about easy. Just look at some of the lawsuits against OpenAI: https://originality.ai/blog/openai-chatgpt-lawsuit-list

2. Think about this - what you are saying is that you can’t sell anything without also making it public. These are not the same thing. I sell something to get value from my labor. I make something public to get eyes on it. The whole issue is that people who want to privately sell things have their work being undercut by LLMs

3. LLMs are recreating the content

4. Take Miyazaki. He spends his whole life developing a unique art style and skill. Years. He makes his living and provides a living for others with it. The value of that _used to be_ the movies he was paid to make and the revenue they generated. Now LLMs can create his work for free, and he doesn’t see a dime whenever someone converts their profile picture into his style. This is the ethical problem - he is not compensated, let alone the ethics of upending artists years of work for the sake of it

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#129

Post by Draiken »

Lerc wrote: post #113
Draiken wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing teaching other humans to "teaching" a model is absurd. AI can't take their creativity but it will take their means of survival so a few companies can profit instead. Yeah, great trade-off.

>Comparing teaching other humans to "teaching" a model is absurd. Bold conclusion, but why is it absurd? New ways of making thinks has always had an impact on the old ways of making things. Are you proposing we should seek no new ways of making things? I have been described as a creative person by some. The notion of restricting what people can make and how they can make them does not gel with my idea of creativity.…

> Bold conclusion, but why is it absurd?

It doesn't learn anything, it simply regurgitates words based on probability. How we can compare a human learning from other humans to a machine mathematically accessing a zip file with human knowledge is beyond me. It's simply not even in the same ballpark.

> New ways of making thinks has always had an impact on the old ways of making things. Are you proposing we should seek no new ways of making things?

Let's not pretend that any of this is about making things easier or better for everyone. This is to make money and any benefit is a mere side-effect.

Re: Show HN: AI game animation sprite generator

#130

Post by hombre_fatal »

prds_lost wrote: post #36
hombre_fatal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fair to feel bad for how AI is going to eat all of our lunches (either now or 5min from now). But at the end of the day, you either accept it or pitch an alternative. What's the alternative? Freeze tech advancement at 2020's tech in your country? At what expense, and for what gain?

The guillotine will be the alternative if we don't figure out how society is going to function and distribute resources when there is minimal demand for human labor.

Sure. But it's not the responsibility of every individual who builds a lil AI tool to solve that.

And there may be no viable solution except for the one that we JIT at the last possible second like humanity always does for everything.

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