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Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

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Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean by open sourcing, they can take the code to a new startup without having IP legality issues.

Would open sourcing the core IP of a company “typically” require board approval? If a company goes under, the investors will want to sell off the IP, open sourcing everything would make that IP less valueable. There must be some blanket clause in the term sheet to cover that, right? Ie: founders won’t do anything which will materially hurt the company without board approval (or something, I am no where close to a law…

> Would open sourcing the core IP of a company “typically” require board approval?

At this stage, if they can't raise a series A I'd assume they still have a majority of the "board" to themselves.

Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#122
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

allow me to clarify.. Dataherald isn't intended for developers because they don't know SQL, it's intended for developers who want to build text to SQL into their products

But who wants text-to-sql in products that they use? You wouldn't be able to trust the results. So what is it useful for? Of course you could learn to check the output. But then you could just learn SQL. I know dozens of not particularly technical people (certainly not software developers) who have learnt enough SQL to be useful over a couple of days.

I think a lot of people want something like this. Especially as more non technical people are adding business analysts to their jd.

I’ve tried to teach SQL to PMs, bug triage specialists, etc. even a couple of days is too much time for them to learn something not critical or core to their job. Their alternative is to bug data teams with adhoc requests, which data people hate.

A tool like this would probably save 15% of a data teams time, and reduce the worst part of their job. At companies with hundreds, or even thousands, of data folks - that’s massive

And the users are smart people. They can read SQL to see if it looks like the right filters are applied. The “accuracy” issue exists but for certain use cases, it’s honestly not the biggest concern.

Not sure why the tone in this thread is so negative. To the founders, thank you!

Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#125
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes totally agree. You can easily sniff out products that are simple wrap of GPT

Wouldn't a full featured OS GUI be a simple wrap of the command line? Would this make it less valuable to have?

I think it would make it unusably slow.

Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who wants text-to-sql in products that they use? You wouldn't be able to trust the results. So what is it useful for? Of course you could learn to check the output. But then you could just learn SQL. I know dozens of not particularly technical people (certainly not software developers) who have learnt enough SQL to be useful over a couple of days.

I think a lot of people want something like this. Especially as more non technical people are adding business analysts to their jd. I’ve tried to teach SQL to PMs, bug triage specialists, etc. even a couple of days is too much time for them to learn something not critical or core to their job. Their alternative is to bug data teams with adhoc requests, which data people hate. A tool like this would probably save 15%…

we've encountered a lot of instances when people know SQL but just want a first draft of SQL to expedite the process. we see this a lot from data analysts too.

Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#127
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain more about why governance is the issue with a service like this? Companies not wanting their data to go off prem?

yes. some want BYOC solutions. others don't want to even be perceived as being used to train an LLM. not to mention CCPA, GDPR, etc etc etc. lots of questions around what data is being sent to the LLM, or just schema.

Interesting. So by open sourcing you think companies can self host and it negates some of these issues? Or is your goal into increase future contributions to keep the project alive and developing?

What % of the NL -> SQL problem is solved in the current version? Ie is this something ready for some type of prod work now, or is it “in 2-3 years we’ll be there”?

Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#128
post #113
post #3

Have you considered enforcing a grammar on the LLM when it is generating SQL? This could ensure that it only generates syntactically valid SQL, including awareness of the valid set of field names and their types, and such. It would not be easy, by any means, but I believe it is theoretically possible.

That sounds overkill. It's usually enough to just tell the LLM to output valid SQL and it will adhere to the schema.

In our experience building louie.ai for a continuous learning variant of text2query (and for popular DBs beyond SQL), getting syntax right via a symbolic lint phase is a nice speedup, but not the a correctness issue. For syntax, bigger LLMs are generally right on the first shot, and an agent loop autocorrects quickly when the DB gives a syntax error.

Much more time for us goes to things like:

* Getting the right table, column name spelling

* Disambiguating typos when users define names, and deciding whether they mean a specific name or are using a shorthand

* Disambiguating selection when there are multiple for the same thing: hint - this needs to be learned from usage, not by static schema analysis

* Guard rails, such as on perf

* Translation from non-technical user concepts to analyst concepts

* Enterprise DB schemas are generally large and often blow out the LLM context window, or make things slow, expensive, and lossy if you rely on giant context windows

* Learning and team modes so the model improves over time. User teaching interfaces are especially tricky once you expose them - learning fuzzy vs explicit modes, avoid data leakage, ... .

* A lot of power comes from being part of an agentic loop with other tools like Python and charting, which creates a 'composition' problem that requires AI optimization across any sub-AIs

We have been considering OSS this layer of louie.ai, but it hasn't been a priority for our customers, who are the analyst orgs using our UIs on top (Splunk, OpenSearch, Neo4j, Databricks, ...), and occasionally building their own internal tools in top of our API. Our focus has been building a sustainable and high quality project, and these OSS projects seem to be very different to sustain without also solving that, which is hard enough as-is..

Re: Show HN: We open sourced our entire text-to-SQL product

#130
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the target audience is developers who wish to embed text to SQL functionality into their own products. the target audience is less the 'internal use case' (i.e. a data analyst) and more about letting external users do things they couldn't do before. a good example is payroll software where this type of technology can allow users to pull reports.

With what level of accuracy? And what guarantee of correctness? Because a report that happens to get the joins wrong once every 1000 reports is going to lead to fun legal problems. You still need someone who understands why you should use which approach to get the data you need without getting completely wrong numbers back that _look_ perfectly fine but reflect fantasy, not reality.

> With what level of accuracy? And what guarantee of correctness? Because a report that happens to get the joins wrong once every 1000 reports is going to lead to fun legal problems.

The truth is everyone knows LLMs can't tell correct from error, can't tell real from imagined, and cannot care.

The word "hallucinate" has been used to explain when an LLM gets things wrong, when it's equally applicable to when it gets things right.

Everyone thinks the hallucinations can be trained out, leaving only edge cases. But in reality, edge cases are often horror stories. And an LLM edge case isn't a known quantity for which, say, limits, tolerances and test suites can really do the job. Because there's nobody with domain skill saying, look, this is safe or viable within these limits.

All LLM products are built with the same intention: we can use this to replace real people or expertise that is expensive to develop, or sell it to companies on that basis.

If it goes wrong, they know the excited customer will invest an unbillable amount of time re-training the LLM or double-checking its output -- developing a new unnecessary, tangential skill or still spending time doing what the LLM was meant to replace.

But hopefully you only need a handful of such babysitters, right? And if it goes really wrong there are disclaimers and legal departments.

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