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Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

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Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#121

Post by alttag »

david927 wrote: post #38
scottdw2 wrote: post #16

I don't think that public funding of elections or free advertising (see the bottom of the page) are the solutions to government corruption. That would just force bribers to be more covert. It's analogous to the fact that SOPA wouldn't stop piracy. It seems to me that the real solution is to dramatically limit the size of government, so that there is nothing to be bought, rather then just changing the currency used to…

The wealthiest countries in the world have large governments and don't have these problems. Still, if we can bank online, we can vote online. I see nothing stopping a proposal where if 25% of the public vote online, the result is accepted over what Congress voted. No advertising allowed. Suddenly, bribing/lobbying Congress would no longer make sense.

Right. Because no one on the Internet has ever rightly compared the general public to easily manipulated sheep.

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#122

Post by knz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #90
davidw wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone should write a bot that replays these tedious discussions, freeing up people to do more productive work. M-x libertopians-vs-lefties Or something like that.

The reason this debate rages incessantly is because government, like any institution, grows over time. It takes constant dialogue to evaluate when it has gone too far and then suddenly shrink it when that time comes. Mindless it may seem because of no resulting action 99% of the time, but the same can be said of pre-flight engine tests.

Is the issue that the government has grown, or is it how the government has grown?

The demands of Government are not the same as they were in 1787. Instead of 4M people living in relative isolation we now have 310M people participating in a global economy.

Personally I want a Government than provides the necessary infrastructure and regulatory environment for a modern economy....

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#124

Post by JanezStupar »

maxerickson wrote: post #110
JanezStupar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But literally all historically successful democracies have limited what set of populace are the "people". I am not US citizen however I know that when the US was created "the people" were pretty much in minority. It was also expected that "the people" will respect and defend their civic freedoms. The Switzerland for example historically only allowed armed men to vote and even today if one rejects their military servi…

What are your examples of historically successful democracies?

Athens, Rome, Sparta, Switzerland, United States

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#125

Post by jrockway »

davidw wrote: post #60
vectorpush wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dramatically limit the size of government Any specifics? "Limit the size of government" is a trite platitude that anyone could agree with on some level. Shove 100 random people in a room and you have 200 conflicting ideas about the appropriate role of government.

Maybe someone should write a bot that replays these tedious discussions, freeing up people to do more productive work. M-x libertopians-vs-lefties Or something like that.

M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead

Yow!

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#126

Post by rthomas6 »

nerfhammer wrote: post #116
kbutler wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That government is best which governs least." -- attr. Thomas Jefferson

I've never understood the citation of proverb in lieue of argument

It's an appeal to authority.

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#129

Post by nimblegorilla »

rgarcia wrote: post #119
scott_s wrote: post #105

I'm going to crib from my own post from two days ago: Donations don't literally buy votes, but what they do literally buy is face time. That is, people in Congress will hold fundraisers, and lobbyists pay to attend those fundraisers. The understanding is that the lobbyists who attend those fundraisers will have time to talk to the politician about the issues their clients care about. This episode of Planet Money clea…

I don't understand your point--wouldn't public financing of elections remove the need to hold fundraisers? The problem as I see it is that representatives are forced (due to the exorbitant cost of campaigning) to win over wealthy interests. This manifests itself as what we've seen with the whole SOPA debacle: representatives who are completely out of touch with their constituents.

How would public financing solve anything? If we gave each candidate a billion dollars it seems like there would still be an incentive to raise even more money from rich corporations.

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#130

Post by SoftwareMaven »

david927 wrote: post #38
scottdw2 wrote: post #16

I don't think that public funding of elections or free advertising (see the bottom of the page) are the solutions to government corruption. That would just force bribers to be more covert. It's analogous to the fact that SOPA wouldn't stop piracy. It seems to me that the real solution is to dramatically limit the size of government, so that there is nothing to be bought, rather then just changing the currency used to…

The wealthiest countries in the world have large governments and don't have these problems. Still, if we can bank online, we can vote online. I see nothing stopping a proposal where if 25% of the public vote online, the result is accepted over what Congress voted. No advertising allowed. Suddenly, bribing/lobbying Congress would no longer make sense.

Take a look at the mess California is in before you go too far down the referendum-type path. Having a final veto power in the hands of the people may be a really good, final check. Imagine what vetoing SCoTUS decisions could be like.

It would have to be a high percentage (maybe even a true population majority, not just a voter majority). We certainly have the technology to make that happen now.

I'm still not sure we wouldn't wind up with the federal version of California, though.

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