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Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

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Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#111

Post by cxr »

swiftcoder wrote: post #104
cxr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if the reader hadn't heard of ETH Zurich it could be reasonably inferred that ETH Zurich is an academic institution, probably in Zurich, where Oberon was successful. Part of writing is trusting that the reader is a rational person The first sentence of the README says, " This project modernizes the Kernel of Oberon System 3 (version 2.3.7) by migrating it from the original Oberon Boot Loader (OBL, written in a…

> it can be reasonably inferred that "Oberon System 3" is an operating system "Oberon is an operating system" was indeed evident, but it's also not particularly illuminating. There are dozens of niche operating systems, why do we care about this one in particular? What does it do that other operating systems don't?

> "Oberon is an operating system" was indeed evident

> I was about 5 links deep before I figured out what Oberon actually was

You aren't being consistent.

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#112

Post by justin66 »

lproven wrote: post #107
swiftcoder wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it can be reasonably inferred that "Oberon System 3" is an operating system "Oberon is an operating system" was indeed evident, but it's also not particularly illuminating. There are dozens of niche operating systems, why do we care about this one in particular? What does it do that other operating systems don't?

> "Oberon is an operating system" was indeed evident, No, it is not evident: this is not correct. Oberon is bare-metal self-hosted programming system. It is both a language and an OS. > why do we care about this one in particular? 1. It is the final development in the career of Niklaus Wirth, the creator of Pascal. Pascal is the Wirthian language that had considerable commercial success. (A dialect called the USCD p-…

Borland Turbo Pascal for CP/M and MS-DOS was developed by Anders Hejlsberg, who went on to develop All The Languages for Microsoft.

Perhaps more surprisingly, Turbo Modula 2 for CP/M (which was certainly surpassed by Topspeed Modula 2) was developed by Martin Odersky, who created Scala.

Throw in Robert Griesemer and his co-creation of Go, and the Wirth family tree is as influential in modern programming as it possibly could be.

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#113

Post by benj111 »

loneboat wrote: post #64
Rochus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good opportunity to consult wikipedia once again ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) ), or to ask your trusted LLM.

Pasting a Wikipedia link or saying "just ask an LLM" only helps out the one instance of someone not knowing. I did the same thing as the OP you're replying to. They're right - a brief summary in the readme would be a near zero-effort permanent fix to people who stumble on your project and dont know what Oberon is.

So to explain what an apple pie is, first you must explain the universe? Every time?

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#114

Post by Rochus »

justin66 wrote: post #91

This is a really cool thing. Thanks Rochus. The Oberon language and the Oberon System were featured in Byte Magazine several times, most notably in Dick Pountain's articles: https://vintageapple.org/byte/pdf/199103_Byte_Magazine_Vol_1... https://vintageapple.org/byte/pdf/199305_Byte_Magazine_Vol_1... https://vintageapple.org/byte/pdf/199501_Byte_Magazine_Vol_2... Spotting similarities betwen the appearance of the Obe…

It really is a pretty exciting project, even if I do have a few more gray hairs now (at least the ones that are left). Thanks for the Byte magazine references; I wasn't aware of these articles; very interesting to read how people experienced this technology in the nineties.

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#115

Post by [deleted] »

EffCompute wrote: post #13
Rochus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "OS" (or rather "kernel") was actually the VM which was implemented in microcode and BCPL. The Smalltalk code within the image was completely abstracted away from the physical machine. In today's terms it was rather the "userland", not a full OS.

It's refreshing to see Oberon getting some love on the Pi. There’s a certain 'engineering elegance' in the Wirthian school of thought that we’ve largely lost in modern systems. While working on a C++ vector engine optimized for 5M+ documents in very tight RAM (240MB), I often find myself looking back at how Oberon handled resource management. In an era where a 'hello world' app can pull in 100MB of dependencies, the…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#116

Post by musicale »

pjmlp wrote: post #102
musicale wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OS formatting tools. Not directly if I remember correctly, but there are OS formatting tools I would call that an extra compiler pass to fix the SHOUTING syntax.

You would have some fun during the days computers only displayed CAPITALISED FONTS!

AT least that WOULD avoid THE jarring transitions AND misplaced emphasis.

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#117

Post by musicale »

pjmlp wrote: post #103
musicale wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does automatic capitalization solve the EMPHASIS problem ? For that matter, how do syntax-aware editors solve the problem of finding significant spaces (Python) or parentheses (Lisp) unintuitive, confusing, or simply unpleasant?

A you problem.

So THE answer seems TO be "they don't".

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#118

Post by lproven »

cxr wrote: post #110
lproven wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Oberon is an operating system" was indeed evident, No, it is not evident: this is not correct. Oberon is bare-metal self-hosted programming system. It is both a language and an OS. > why do we care about this one in particular? 1. It is the final development in the career of Niklaus Wirth, the creator of Pascal. Pascal is the Wirthian language that had considerable commercial success. (A dialect called the USCD p-…

> No, it is not evident: this is not correct. It is evident. It is correct. You aren't making this any better.

No, it is not correct, and trying to coerce it into the reductive box of an incomplete view does not help.

Comparison: you are angrily maintaining "Orange is a colour! It is right there in the rainbow! Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet! It's a colour! That is the set to which it belongs!"

It is true. But it is incomplete.

It is also a fruit. It belongs equally in "apple, orange, banana, pear, quince."

Also a valid set; no parallel.

It is in other sets too. The set of citrus fruits. "Lemon, orange, lime, pomelo, grapefruit."

Oberon is a programming language.

It is also a set of frameworks. They are integral.

It is also an editor.

It is also a UI design.

It is also an OS.

Any one is true but is incomplete.

There are other views but yours and none is privileged; yours does not invalidate the others, nor they yours. You only see one but your view is too narrow.

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#119

Post by cxr »

lproven wrote: post #118
cxr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it is not evident: this is not correct. It is evident. It is correct. You aren't making this any better.

No, it is not correct, and trying to coerce it into the reductive box of an incomplete view does not help. Comparison: you are angrily maintaining "Orange is a colour! It is right there in the rainbow! Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet! It's a colour! That is the set to which it belongs!" It is true. But it is incomplete. It is also a fruit. It belongs equally in "apple, orange, banana, pear, quince."…

I'm not sparring with you. You are wrong.

Oberon is an operating system, and "Oberon is an operating system" is a fair and accurate statement.

I don't expect you to relent on this—I'm too well acquainted. You're still wrong.

Re: Show HN: Oberon System 3 runs natively on Raspberry Pi 3 (with ready SD card)

#120

Post by lproven »

cxr wrote: post #119
lproven wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not correct, and trying to coerce it into the reductive box of an incomplete view does not help. Comparison: you are angrily maintaining "Orange is a colour! It is right there in the rainbow! Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet! It's a colour! That is the set to which it belongs!" It is true. But it is incomplete. It is also a fruit. It belongs equally in "apple, orange, banana, pear, quince."…

I'm not sparring with you. You are wrong. Oberon is an operating system, and "Oberon is an operating system" is a fair and accurate statement. I don't expect you to relent on this—I'm too well acquainted. You're still wrong.

It is an OS.

And it is also a programming language, which can run on other OSes as well as on its own native one.

Here's a Windows version:

https://blackboxframework.org/

Here's a Linux version too:

https://blackbox.oberon.org/download

Renamed, but "Component Pascal" is Oberon.

Wirth's Oberon is a compiler, but Oberon can also be compiled with other compilers.

Vishaps interpiles Oberon via C using GCC, Clang etc.

https://vishap.oberon.am/

So does OBNC:

https://miasap.se/obnc/

Astrobe is another alternative compiler:

https://astrobe.com/

OberonC compiles it to the JVM:

https://github.com/lboasso/oberonc

Here is a list of others:

https://oberon07.com/compilers.xhtml

You are keen to rebut me, but you have not refuted me. Provide evidence for your case. Don't tell me I am wrong, because I've had decades of that and I don't care. Show me I am wrong and I will listen.

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