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Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

graz.io

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Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#111

Post by cole-k »

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #30

OP, congrats on the product and effort. _NOTHING_ beats prototyping and building. For other split-mechanical keyboards check out: ZSA Voyager Moergo Glove 80

Yeah this is awesome.

For keyboards really similar to OP's

The keyboard they were inspired by (not for sale... yet?): https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cfg3vr/...

Corneish (out of stock): https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen?variant=376943319... Unicorne: https://new.boardsource.xyz/products/unicorne-LP

The corneish is an absolute gem in my opinion. It is possibly (probably?) open-sourced too.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#112

Post by 6SixTy »

Executor wrote: post #92

Criticism: - Non-standard layout - Where's the arrow keys block? Insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block? - Non-staggered keys makes it hard to type due to mistyping on the wrong row Questions: - Do you have nkey rollover? - Would you accept "optional" wires? Note: gaming requires fast response times. Hell even programming/writing sucks when there's key lag.

Ortholinear is a standard but non-orthodox layout for keyboards. And when you see 60%, it means you are getting only the main alphanumeric section with esc often smushed into what would otherwise be the ~/` key.

With 60% keyboards, you are often using modifier layers baked into the keyboards' firmware to get back your function keys and your control block like page up

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#113

Post by asoneth »

rpmisms wrote: post #53

Looks like something I would pay $150 for, or $120 if I had to assemble it myself.

> Looks like something I would pay $150 for

That's useful market information, but note that in the "How much did it cost?" section he points out that the BOM is ~$400 not including labor, tools, or shipping. Going from extremely low-volume to moderately low-volume might reduce material cost slightly, but I'd still expect him to have to charge at least $400 just to break even.

More generally, I've never seen a low-volume split wireless keyboard for less than $200 and the closest in design I can think of would be https://lowprokb.ca/products/corne-ish-zen which had a base price of $320 before pricing in keyswitches or keycaps.

It's totally reasonable that this is your price point and everyone is different -- some people would never pay more than a hundred bucks for a keyboard, whereas I have a couple keyboards that are more expensive than the computers they're connected to.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#114

Post by matthew-craig »

aylmao wrote: post #102

The grid layout makes this look so futuristic (and anime [1]). It looks very cool, though I wonder how long it'd take to get used to one, having only ever typed on staggered layouts. [1] https://gifer.com/es/BFCV

[dead]

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#115

Post by tquinn »

My ideal keyboard would be taking a Magic keyboard (in black or space gray) and splitting it into two. This is the closest I have seen. I'm too committed to a standard layout to go ortho linear at this point, but I admit it looks the most sleek and modern for sure.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#116

Post by isaacaggrey »

aylmao wrote: post #102

The grid layout makes this look so futuristic (and anime [1]). It looks very cool, though I wonder how long it'd take to get used to one, having only ever typed on staggered layouts. [1] https://gifer.com/es/BFCV

I think other commenters are overstating the change from staggered to columnar. I type just fine (100 WPM+) going between my Moonlander (split keyboard from ZSA) and my Lenovo/Macbook (typical staggered layouts).

In hindsight, the biggest issue I ran into switching keyboards was that I was too ambitious playing around with the key configuration. The configurability is a big draw but I took for granted that I had already built up years of natural tendency for certain things - which thumb I use for space, preferences for Ctrl/Alt/Command/Option, for Shift, etc.

The default for these keyboards probably don't 100% align with what you're used to, so you should directly map what you're doing currently over to the keymap of the keyboard and then you can fiddle with making it yours over time.

I will say that if you're not already a touch typer, then a split keyboard is not going to help and it will be more difficult to get used to.

edit: also, if anything, going columnar helped me actually consistently hit number keys!

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#117

Post by aendruk »

voidUpdate wrote: post #37

Why do no split keyboards have symbols on the keycaps? What happens when you forget where a key is that you don't use often, do you just have to press keys until you find it again?

> What happens when you forget where a key is

I ask myself where I expected it to be, then update the keyboard accordingly. Eventually it doesn’t happen anymore.

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#118

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

Executor wrote: post #92

Criticism: - Non-standard layout - Where's the arrow keys block? Insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block? - Non-staggered keys makes it hard to type due to mistyping on the wrong row Questions: - Do you have nkey rollover? - Would you accept "optional" wires? Note: gaming requires fast response times. Hell even programming/writing sucks when there's key lag.

> Where's the arrow keys block? Insert/delete/home/end/pgup/pgdown block?

In the nav layer. One popular layout of split keyboards is two 3x5 grids of keys with 3 thumb buttons. With this configuration, it is common to map modifier keys to the home row keys, activated when they are held down. Likewise, for numbers, symbols, navigation, a thumb key is held down to activate that layer. Your fingers never have to stretch more than one key-length away.

Miryoku is a popular implmentation of this. It looks crazy, but you can get used to it really quickly, or alter it to your own taste.

https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#119

Post by rpmisms »

asoneth wrote: post #113
rpmisms wrote: post #53

Looks like something I would pay $150 for, or $120 if I had to assemble it myself.

> Looks like something I would pay $150 for That's useful market information, but note that in the "How much did it cost?" section he points out that the BOM is ~$400 not including labor, tools, or shipping. Going from extremely low-volume to moderately low-volume might reduce material cost slightly, but I'd still expect him to have to charge at least $400 just to break even. More generally, I've never seen a low-vol…

I am also a keyboard snob, and have far more expensive keyboards. Mass manufacturing drastically lowers costs, and a price point goal is super useful for group buys, which I have run before. It is useful data.

I'm also talking about PCB + case only. The case is the biggest cost driver here, a simple FRT plate case would make my kit price reasonable with a healthy margin

Re: Show HN: Bayleaf – Building a low-profile wireless split keyboard

#120

Post by crazygringo »

I always wanted Apple to make a split keyboard.

Then I realized I could just buy two Magic Keyboards and use them at the same time -- typing on the left half of the left one, and the right half of the right one.

After all, the proper ergonomic position is for your forearms to be parallel (not angled inward), which means the keyboard halves you're using should be approximately shoulder-width apart, so there's tons of room to use both without them colliding.

Once I figured it out, I felt like an idiot for not figuring it out a decade earlier. I'm never going back.

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