Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#111

Post by rickdicker » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

i_c_b wrote: post #86

I've long been fascinated by the intense role of path dependency in what technologies and art styles get really explored and mapped out in connection with computers, and I think Flash is a magnificent example of that in action. Until Flash got really big, 2D vector art styles in games were really pretty underexplored. Not totally - there were games like Out of This World, say - but in general 2D games historically le…

That is some seriously cool stuff! It's a shame nothing came of it - but I suppose shipping something good with cool new tech is bound to be harder than shipping something good that's been done a million times. Not because the tech is difficult, but because there's less of a roadmap to go off of, design-wise. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#112

Post by dwild » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

AshleysBrain wrote: post #62

mclightning wrote: post #53

I was a huge Flash nerd, all the way since Macromedia Flash 5. I learnt programming with Flash 5 and action script. I have been at it until Flash 8. Then I stopped putting effort to keep-up and eventually Flash died. Something was lost in the internet culture. Flash was the language of web art. I don't know what is the new language for that anymore. If anyone knows, please do tell me. WebGL? Any WebGL-powered framewo…

We make Construct Animate which can do Flash-style animation right in the browser: https://www.construct.net/en/animation-software

At first glance it seems to only support bitmap? I means it does seems great, but I believe a big part of Flash is the vectorial format, it's not baked into the image, and it does look "good" in many resolutions. You can iterate quickly that way.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#113

Post by cyber_kinetist » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:08 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #107

Since Ruffle is running the Flash for this, couldn't one just keep using Flash via Ruffle?

From what I know, Ruffle cannot emulate AS3 properly yet, so you’re pretty much stuck with old AS2 for the time being (though it seems some devs prefer it).

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#114

Post by pmarreck » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 1:28 AM UTC

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #113

pmarreck wrote: post #107

Since Ruffle is running the Flash for this, couldn't one just keep using Flash via Ruffle?

From what I know, Ruffle cannot emulate AS3 properly yet, so you’re pretty much stuck with old AS2 for the time being (though it seems some devs prefer it).

I realized this after I posted. I assume they're making semi-steady progress on it. IMHO, something that can't run every .swf file is not yet a proper Flash runner.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#115

Post by Dracophoenix » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 1:51 AM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #92

rickdicker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much it - though it's been able to target other platforms since long before the "Animate" name change. I believe it still has a small-but-significant market share in the animation industry (mostly TV stuff) (hence the name!), but there's waning support for anything else. That said, Ruffle ( https://ruffle.rs/ ) is keeping flash alive on the web, preserving the legacy of flash and enabling people to make…

Last I heard, my buddy Pringle was still using it to do Teen Titans. He picked it up along with me when we were at Spumco doing web stuff and ended up at Cartoon Network, doing stuff like Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends. I think the last I heard from him was like a decade ago, so who knows, maybe he and his crew finally moved on to some other tool. But it definitely persisted in the animation industry long after…

Since you worked at Spumco, weren't the animators using a combo of hand-drawn work and PowerAnimator or did things move on quite quickly to digital art by the time you were there?

While Adobe is still making animate Teen Titans Go! (a Spongebob-esque spinoff of the original show), as well as many other US animated shows past 2012, moved on to Toon Boom.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#116

Post by egypturnash » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 2:33 AM UTC

Dracophoenix wrote: post #115

egypturnash wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard, my buddy Pringle was still using it to do Teen Titans. He picked it up along with me when we were at Spumco doing web stuff and ended up at Cartoon Network, doing stuff like Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends. I think the last I heard from him was like a decade ago, so who knows, maybe he and his crew finally moved on to some other tool. But it definitely persisted in the animation industry long after…

Since you worked at Spumco, weren't the animators using a combo of hand-drawn work and PowerAnimator or did things move on quite quickly to digital art by the time you were there? While Adobe is still making animate Teen Titans Go! (a Spongebob-esque spinoff of the original show), as well as many other US animated shows past 2012, moved on to Toon Boom.

I was there during the WPH era, when there was a hybrid digital/physical process. The workflow was boards>layout>inks>painstaking hand-optimization of scanned inks in some autotrace program that's long gone>Flash>color>animation. The parts that John interfered with the most were layout and animation. The Flash side wasn't allowed to draw a damn thing, we just chopped up approved drawings and moved them around.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#117

Post by jtbayly » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 3:23 AM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #99

jtbayly wrote: post #85

It's 2023, what are my thoughts on Flash? It still doesn't work on mobile. That's my only thought. My phone is more powerful than my computer was when Flash died. Makes no sense.

Only if "mobile" equates to "iPhone". And even then, it ran; it was the rendering engine for the old iPhone Youtube app. Lord Jobs simply didn't let it into the App Store for fear it would displace all the native games like iBeer. Flash ran on Android natively; even ran on Windows Mobile 6.5, for those who remember it. It was Adobe that ended support for it, as Google also didn't want them competing against the Play…

But… it doesn’t work on my phone. The author even warned me at the top of the page. I didn’t believe him. I tried it on my phone. It didn’t work.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#118

Post by Dracophoenix » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 4:53 AM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #116

Dracophoenix wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you worked at Spumco, weren't the animators using a combo of hand-drawn work and PowerAnimator or did things move on quite quickly to digital art by the time you were there? While Adobe is still making animate Teen Titans Go! (a Spongebob-esque spinoff of the original show), as well as many other US animated shows past 2012, moved on to Toon Boom.

I was there during the WPH era, when there was a hybrid digital/physical process. The workflow was boards>layout>inks>painstaking hand-optimization of scanned inks in some autotrace program that's long gone>Flash>color>animation. The parts that John interfered with the most were layout and animation. The Flash side wasn't allowed to draw a damn thing, we just chopped up approved drawings and moved them around.

So I just watched WPH as I haven't seen that one before and noticed the cat was similar to the one in the Weird Al Yaknovic music video for No Cigar. I don't know if personally you had a hand in that one, but all in all, the show looks pretty good for 1999 and probably looked less stiff on a CRT than it does on my phone.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#119

Post by camhenlin » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:11 AM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #79

grishka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. The ease with which Flash allowed one to create all these web experiences, with little to no programming, is still unmatched to this day.

I feel like the same is true of Visual Basic 6. (Excuse me, I'll wait....) OK, now that we've all calmed back down, VB6 has been unmatched in the way that it allowed someone with zero experience to drag-and-drop and write in what looks like pseudocode to get some little business widget built. Yes, you can engineer something with better architecture that's less likely to paint you into a `DoEvents()` corner. Yes, the…

My first job was writing VBA programs on top of extremely complicated Excel 97 spreadsheets to prevent input errors and provide a cleaner UI. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ve ever been as productive as I was at that job. It was just so straightforward to crank out decent looking forms and so intuitive for a fresh new dev

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#120

Post by grupthink » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 8:32 AM UTC

I would like to thank OP for creating this. I watched this yesterday and thought the visuals were fun, playful, and rare in this day and age. More than that, it felt like I was on the phone with an old friend revisiting old memories that we both shared. I love hearing people like this tell their story because their passion and enthusiasm is contagious. And, well, I didn't realize the effect this would have on me at the time, but your message has stayed with me, and helped me feel inspired enough to get some creative work done this afternoon. I just kept thinking about how ephemeral and fleeting everything is. And that I really needed to seize the day! Thank you OP. I hope you will share more of your stories with us again soon. Cheers.