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Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

beeper.com

101–110 of 902 posts

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#101
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't have to ban it, they could just alter the protocol to make it impossible. iMessage is designed to only work on devices manufactured by a single company. All of those devices have secure cryptographic elements built into them. It's not a stretch to think Apple could lock down iMessage under the guise of security.

Again, they would have to answer to EU courts. They are legally required to be interoperable now. Banning non-iPhones would definitely be litigated.

This is not true. iMessage hasn't been declared a core service by the EU. This takes seconds to Google.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#102
https://blog.beeper.com/p/how-beeper-mini-works

> SMS access is used to send an SMS text message from your number to Apple’s “Gateway” service. The gateway sends a response via SMS, and the contents from that SMS response are sent to Apple to register your phone number as a blue bubble. Your SMS chat history is also used to determine if any of your recent SMS chats were with people who have iPhones. If so, these chats are shown in the inbox.

Does this mean that Apple is sent the phone number of every person you have ever sent or received an SMS with?

Very cool program, by the way. It’s refreshing to see a company take privacy seriously.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is the LastPass of messaging apps. This has been endlessly discussed and I want people to use their curiosity to help direct them to why I would comment in this way. In practice (not whitepaper or the ideal implementation), it is no more secure than sms (actually worse)

This is absolutely not true. iMessage is a full E2E implementation; it’s nothing like SMS.

"E2E" is a joke when Apple holds the encryption keys to the vast majority of all messages, and uses them to respond to law enforcement requests. (It's how iCloud backup works by default and we know people don't change defaults. This is documented by Apple, not a conspiracy theory.)

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#104
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Apple won't like this or ever officially approve of it, but you make it sound like you'd call the police if you saw someone using an unofficial AIM client. I think the dramatics can be chilled. The ToS is dumb and not worth the virtual paper its written on. If Beeper can keep up with the cat-and-mouse game, this is no different than Trillian or GAIM/Pidgin/Bitlbee/libpurple or aMSN or Miranda IM or Gtkcord4 and…

I feel like there are two questions Beeper needs to ask itself... 1) Are they going all-in on being an antagonist to Apple? 2) Will the users be willing to stick around during any outages/downtime/failures due to the cat-and-mouse game? (That I agree will follow and continue.)

I can't answer for Beeper, but why would they be unnecessarily antagonistic to Apple? It's not related to their product or mission. Beeper offers interoperability. Antagonism is an undesired byproduct of any of this work, and it's immature to be antagonistic for no reason.

Will it be a cat-and-mouse game? Maybe. Will users stay? Probably. In many cases, Beeper users already WERE iMessage users. Beeper users ARE Discord users. They are users of the upstream service and explicitly want a unified and interoperable chat system, for one reason or another. Maybe it's more practicality than ideals, but it's all the same in the end.

That said, it's not like Beeper is new, and it doesn't seem like antagonism is a primary driver of operational issues yet, so it's not clear it's about to start any time soon, either. Perhaps one of the most annoying tech company strategies is to try to establish a horrid status quo before regulators and law enforcement have time to catch up with you, making it much harder to actually do anything about. I see Beeper as one of a small number of companies that are basically on the opposite end; if they gain a large enough mass of users, it's going to be harder and harder to antagonize Beeper without antagonizing their own userbase, especially when you consider that the value of IM networks is largely in the connections between users. So, the clock is ticking.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#105
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple bans this they will have to answer to EU courts. I very much doubt they will in this political climate.

They wouldn't have to ban it, they could just alter the protocol to make it impossible. iMessage is designed to only work on devices manufactured by a single company. All of those devices have secure cryptographic elements built into them. It's not a stretch to think Apple could lock down iMessage under the guise of security.

Could they just require the client to send over the Apple logo, which is trademarked, like Nintendo did with the GameBoy?

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#106
post #69

From their blogpost: https://blog.beeper.com/p/beeper-cloud-and-product-roadmap > Everything changed in August when a security researcher reverse engineered the iMessage protocol. > At a high level, here’s our product plan for the near future (in very rough order, and very subject to change): > Add support for SMS, WhatsApp and Signal into Beeper Mini, using the same end-to-end encrypted client-side connection archit…

> Signal is the same, [...], the only official clients are the CLI and the ones they release Is there an officially supported CLI for Signal? Please tell me it's true, that would mean so much for small scale automation!

Not official but this works darn well: https://github.com/AsamK/signal-cli

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#107
post #102

https://blog.beeper.com/p/how-beeper-mini-works > SMS access is used to send an SMS text message from your number to Apple’s “Gateway” service. The gateway sends a response via SMS, and the contents from that SMS response are sent to Apple to register your phone number as a blue bubble. Your SMS chat history is also used to determine if any of your recent SMS chats were with people who have iPhones. If so, these chat…

seems likely? or atleast a hash of it.

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#108
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't have to ban it, they could just alter the protocol to make it impossible. iMessage is designed to only work on devices manufactured by a single company. All of those devices have secure cryptographic elements built into them. It's not a stretch to think Apple could lock down iMessage under the guise of security.

Could they just require the client to send over the Apple logo, which is trademarked, like Nintendo did with the GameBoy?

That was defeated 30 years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade

Re: Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

#110
post #60
post #36

How long until this gets forked into an iMessage spam bot?

There's already a ton of those operating, I get iMessage spam at least once per day.

Never ever seen that myself. SMS however yes, lots if spam by companies using bulk SMS services. But those show up as green bubbles so easier to ignore.
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