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Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

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Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say any of those bullet points are inherently better - just differences for you to contemplate. For all the downsides of these things, there are artistic uses of each that sadly are not an option on modern video platforms. Example - mystery runtime, while inconvenient to someone in a hurry, is useful in keeping suspense or surprise. It's kind of hard to convince a reader that the hero is at risk of dying w…

> It's kind of hard to convince a reader that the hero is at risk of dying when there's obviously 2/3rds of a book left. This is what George R. R. Martin wanted to do. He will kill the fake-out protagonist at any time. This is supposed to mean that he is a great writer. But really it just means he's bad at storytelling - you'd tell a better story by just focusing on the actual protagonists instead of random redshirts…

This is only true if you accept an extremely myopic view of storytelling.

A Song of Ice and Fire is about the illegitimacy of the Lannisters' reign, the choice to execute Ned Stark for discovering it, and the ensuing civil wars. Ned Stark isn't a "fake protagonist" because he dies. He's a protagonist and he dies, and then the story continues. Not every story needs to be a Save The Cat Hollywood screenplay to be "correct," and not every character arc needs to be satisfyingly resolved.

You not getting Boss Baby vibes from Martin's writing doesn't mean he's done anything wrong.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#102

I was a huge Flash nerd, all the way since Macromedia Flash 5. I learnt programming with Flash 5 and action script. I have been at it until Flash 8. Then I stopped putting effort to keep-up and eventually Flash died. Something was lost in the internet culture. Flash was the language of web art. I don't know what is the new language for that anymore. If anyone knows, please do tell me. WebGL? Any WebGL-powered framewo…

I wish Macromedia had been able to get Flash to work without a plug-in. Flash was missing on Unix outside of Mac OS X and only i386 Linux.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#103
post #100

It's fascinating to observe the dramatic shift in perceptions around Flash on Hacker News over the past 5-10 years. As I recall, discussions mentioning Flash were once dominated by near-unanimous complaints about its flaws, and there was an overwhelming sense of relief when it was announced that it would be deprecated. Now, the narrative has evolved to appreciate the unique creative value Flash provided and the disti…

I think it comes down to those that categorize Flash's use cases as either white-hat or black-hat. Some will remember Flash-based banner ads and video sites, that often had malware; that's black-hat Flash. Many others will remember Flash for the games, cartoons and experiences that were non-commercial in nature and thus were malware-free.

tbh I think the dividing line is pretty clear:

Many are glad the performance and security nightmare of a runtime is gone, and we have modern replacements for most of what it did. They're not all superior, but I think it's fair to say we're roughly equivalent now, and possibly better, in aggregate.

Most are sad that the excellent, ubiquitous, amateur-friendly authoring environment is gone, and no replacement currently exists. There are many more-specialized ones, but few general ones (and they're far less widely used, though that could change eventually).

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much it - though it's been able to target other platforms since long before the "Animate" name change. I believe it still has a small-but-significant market share in the animation industry (mostly TV stuff) (hence the name!), but there's waning support for anything else. That said, Ruffle ( https://ruffle.rs/ ) is keeping flash alive on the web, preserving the legacy of flash and enabling people to make…

Last I heard, my buddy Pringle was still using it to do Teen Titans. He picked it up along with me when we were at Spumco doing web stuff and ended up at Cartoon Network, doing stuff like Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends. I think the last I heard from him was like a decade ago, so who knows, maybe he and his crew finally moved on to some other tool. But it definitely persisted in the animation industry long after…

Wow no kidding! The Spumco web stuff was before my time, but Foster's started airing right around the time I picked up flash, when I was like nine (it was a favorite show of mine!) There were a lot more flash shows on TV back then, and most look pretty crappy by today's standards, but at least that one holds up pretty well.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#105
post #45

I've learned flash after the language died. Haxe, OpenFL and all the amazing tooling built around the Haxe language make it an interesting choice for developing games. Still

Aren’t you missing the key ingredient though? The integrated editing experience?

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#106
post #45

I've learned flash after the language died. Haxe, OpenFL and all the amazing tooling built around the Haxe language make it an interesting choice for developing games. Still

Aren’t you missing the key ingredient though? The integrated editing experience?

I never used that before, I am a Linux user staying far away from Adobe. It's really just the language design that got me (to my own surprise)

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#108
post #103
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to those that categorize Flash's use cases as either white-hat or black-hat. Some will remember Flash-based banner ads and video sites, that often had malware; that's black-hat Flash. Many others will remember Flash for the games, cartoons and experiences that were non-commercial in nature and thus were malware-free.

tbh I think the dividing line is pretty clear: Many are glad the performance and security nightmare of a runtime is gone, and we have modern replacements for most of what it did. They're not all superior, but I think it's fair to say we're roughly equivalent now, and possibly better, in aggregate. Most are sad that the excellent, ubiquitous, amateur-friendly authoring environment is gone, and no replacement currently…

Flash was ironically ahead of it's time.

I don't think Flash is shit canned if it wasn't acquired by Adobe. While it was Macromedia it was no threat to established players, neutral ground if you will. Adobe was much more relevant during that era and as such the acquisition painted a target on it's back.

There exists an alternate universe where Macromedia stayed independent or was acquired by a party like Mozilla interested in openning up the Flash standard. We would be writing frontend "web" code in AS4 or AS5 by now in a fully tricked out IDE that would support code, design and animations in a single interface.

Instead we have the steaming pile of garbage that is Javascript, the one surviving attempt to make that better (Typescript), CSS that is now tortured beyond recognition, no good tooling for building animations or highly interactive interfaces etc.

Flash was a scapegoat to kill the old web but also to ensure that the burgeoning App Store/Play Store would rule mobile instead of something more accessible and cross platform.

Re: Show HN: Thoughts on Flash in 2023, in Flash, in 2023

#109
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing like Flash IMO. Closest we have in the modern day is Unity and Godot

Closer would be Adobe Animate, the official successor, but it is really not the same experience. Wick editor is nice, but developement is on hold. It is open source, so maybe something will still come out if it.

Yeah I mean more from a mindshare / value to your personal portfolio pov. But still, what we have today is just an approximation of Flash in 2000s
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