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Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

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Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#101

Post by thirdsun »

NGRhodes wrote: post #87
IAmGraydon wrote: post #21

I'm not an audiophile in the obsessive-compulsive sense, but I've been recording music in my home studio for 20 years and I know my way around it. This sort of calibration is not ideal. Not only are you measuring with a device that has an imperfect response curve, but you are also measuring the room at a single monophonic point in space. The way that sound interacts with the room and your ears is far more complex tha…

Calibrated (my Audyssey is +-1DB 20hz-20khz) mics do exist and calibration files do exist for some mics, plenty good enough considering how terrible the average house/apartment room is. Your totally right about room treatment and why I don't spend more than the budget end of HiFi, because I know how terrible my room makes everything sound.. Ive measured a few rooms and sets of HiFi and the biggest issue I find is not…

Have you tried Dirac Live? Particularly with a receiver that supports their Bass Control feature? My NAD receiver only supports regular Dirac Live and it's still much, much better than any integrated room correction from Denon/Marantz, Yamaha & Co.

The improvement is so noticeable that I assume it would take a lot of resources to fix the room physically in order to achieve similar results.

I don't want to sound to enthusiastic but I'm pretty certain I'll never buy a receiver that doesn't support Dirac Live.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#102

Post by [deleted] »

thirdsun wrote: post #101
NGRhodes wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calibrated (my Audyssey is +-1DB 20hz-20khz) mics do exist and calibration files do exist for some mics, plenty good enough considering how terrible the average house/apartment room is. Your totally right about room treatment and why I don't spend more than the budget end of HiFi, because I know how terrible my room makes everything sound.. Ive measured a few rooms and sets of HiFi and the biggest issue I find is not…

Have you tried Dirac Live? Particularly with a receiver that supports their Bass Control feature? My NAD receiver only supports regular Dirac Live and it's still much, much better than any integrated room correction from Denon/Marantz, Yamaha & Co. The improvement is so noticeable that I assume it would take a lot of resources to fix the room physically in order to achieve similar results. I don't want to sound to en…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#103

Post by ttpphd »

stdbrouw wrote: post #49
ttpphd wrote: post #28

I'm a psychoacoustician and this is not the way, very sorry to report. Others have touched on the acoustic issues already, so let me touch on the psychological ones: your perception of sound from loudspeakers doesn't just depend on the acoustic waves hitting your ears. It also depends on your personality and expectations. If you genuinely believe that doing a seance to drive out the poltergeist from your speaker set…

"Frequency response does not matter because other things also matter and I have a PhD in these other things." This is a complete non-argument.

If you read again carefully, that is not what I said.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#104

Post by ttpphd »

fhchl wrote: post #37
runeks wrote: post #32

I’ve tried this for my speaker setup. And the problem is that the frequency response is a function of volume. For example, the louder I play music the more the bass is accentuated. I think this is because of standing waves. So the problem I find is that when the volume is low the bass is too low, and when the volume is high the bass is too loud. Only when I play at the same volume as the equalization was performed at…

This is a common psycoacoustic effect and probably not due to the loudspeakers or the room acoustics (which are linear): the (perceived) loudness of a tone is frequency and level dependent [1]. This makes sounds more bassy at large sound pressure levels. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

Loudness is also distance dependent, as in, not just how far away the sound source literally is, but how far away you think it is.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#105

Post by archi42 »

willis936 wrote: post #78
archi42 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the USB DAC, and maybe/probably the PC. I don't have/hear interference with my current setup. I did have the issue with another DAC; IIRC I put an RC filter into the USB cable power lines (or did I just add an R into the ground line? Do some research if you plan on trying this). PCs these days often still have an optical toslink, that can be used to avoid the issue.

I have an ODAC+O2. They're not easy to source for cheap these days. My issue is that the power supply filtering inductor has a cracked iron core (due to me being clumsy). The cheapest solution would be to replace it, but it's not super easy to swap out surface mount components. I'll just deal with it by keeping the O2 volume low and cranking the volume on a second amp. Long term I'll just buy an element or a schiit.

If you use a second amp, why bother with the O2 at all? Or do you have the integrated ODAC?

I've built the O2 as well, and loved it, since for the first time I could drive the HD650; it even has enough power to properly use them on a flight (don't do it, you'll go deaf). But the form factor just isn't that great for on-the-go. Plus with the batteries installed there is no space for the ODAC, requiring a DAC solution (or a phone with a good DAC).

Give the FiiO btr5 a try instead of spending too much on a schiit, or look for similar devices from other manufacturers. A lot of them can do both USB (96kHz/24bit) and decent (LDAC) bluetooth. I could not tell a difference between a friend's BTR5 (dual ES9219C directly driving the headphones) and my Q5 (dual mono akm4490, ad8620 gain stage with dual op926 buffers when used balanced). Of course my hearing could be too damaged^^'

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#106

Post by willis936 »

archi42 wrote: post #105
willis936 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an ODAC+O2. They're not easy to source for cheap these days. My issue is that the power supply filtering inductor has a cracked iron core (due to me being clumsy). The cheapest solution would be to replace it, but it's not super easy to swap out surface mount components. I'll just deal with it by keeping the O2 volume low and cranking the volume on a second amp. Long term I'll just buy an element or a schiit.

If you use a second amp, why bother with the O2 at all? Or do you have the integrated ODAC? I've built the O2 as well, and loved it, since for the first time I could drive the HD650; it even has enough power to properly use them on a flight (don't do it, you'll go deaf). But the form factor just isn't that great for on-the-go. Plus with the batteries installed there is no space for the ODAC, requiring a DAC solution…

The ODAC is soldered to the O2. The O2 is in pristine condition (and I did splurge for an OP2227 in the voltage gain stage and WIMA caps). The analog in works on the O2 so I may abandon the ODAC in place.

The Fiio options do look good. My current desktop application has me switching headphone and mic between a work laptop and personal desktop and headphone and speakers often. I use analog switches, but I'm leaning towards a one box solution in the future rather than adding more hardware. So something like a mayflower ARC mk2 perfectly covers all of my demands (including a bass boost option for my open-back headphones). I already use a USB switch with a powered USB hub, so really it would be swapping out 3 boxes and many cables for one box. The schiit hel 2 looks really great but I've read reports of 200 ms latency.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#107

Post by tomduncalf »

timc3 wrote: post #67
tomduncalf wrote: post #50

Cool project! I recently bought a set of iLoud MTM monitor speakers which come with a special mic which they use to analyse the room and correct for it in a similar way to this. It makes a good difference to the sound - highly recommend the speakers if you are looking for a smallish set of monitor speakers that sound great and can be used very near field so you can use lower volumes.

Yeah, those are kinda cool. They have the added advantage that they don't have a huge amount of bass, though what they do have is impressive for their size to be fair. But because of their size they don't always activate room acoustics in a crazy way, and a lot of people monitor with them fairly close so don't need them loud either further lessening the problems.

> They have the added advantage that they don't have a huge amount of bass, though what they do have is impressive for their size to be fair.

Yeah, this is why I got them really. I have a pair of Event 2020 BAS v3 but our new apartment is much quieter than the old one and I'd feel self conscious blasting them out, so was looking for something which still sounded good but worked well at low volume. I'm pretty impressed with the bass to be fair. I also tried the smaller model (iLoud Micro) but for the sort of music I like for which bass is reasonably important (techno etc.), they weren't quite there. Still impressive though

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#109

Post by brokenmachine »

xani_ wrote: post #93
retcore wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a measurement standard mic: https://earthworksaudio.com/measurement-microphones/m23/

And what would be the "80% of performance for 20% of the price" equivalent of it ?

Minidsp umik-1.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#110

Post by brokenmachine »

amluto wrote: post #8
O__________O wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an audiophile, but one way might be tuning forks. That said, I would be super surprised if this was needed for high-end microphones.

A microphone’s ability to reliably identify a frequency is excellent, even if the microphone is cheap, crappy and uncalibrated. It’s almost entirely a function of whatever clock is used to digitize it, and oscillator chips that are just fine are ubiquitous. The issue is calibrating the amplitude response at a given frequency, and a tuning fork won’t help. edit: those quartz oscillator chips have a lot in common with…

Now I'm imagining using thousands of tuning forks with calibrated knockers.
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