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Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

alan-platform.com

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Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#101

Post by klageveen »

leowoo91 wrote: post #93
klageveen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check this for an example: https://github.com/M-industries/AlanProjectTemplate/blob/mas...

Thank you for the example. I just don't want to be picky but that is church encoding. To represent a number, say 1234567, you will need million items in a list.

Ah, like that. It's a fair point, but you're interpreting the model at too low a level. You don't have to model all possible values of scalar types (number, text) because the implementation of all possible values is known. I.e. you're writing a model that will drive the behavior of the application in terms of business rules, with specifications that matter to users of the application.

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#102

Post by workmandan »

klageveen wrote: post #91
skybrian wrote: post #69

On this page: https://alan-platform.com/pages/tuts/bottom-up.html The ASCII art isn't rendering correctly. (In Chrome on a tablet.)

Damn, I was so proud of that. You should bookmark it so you can enjoy it on a big screen later ;)

Also broken on my 24" monitor (Chrome on Windows)

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#103

Post by klageveen »

tyingq wrote: post #96
klageveen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback, this is exactly what we're looking for here. Perhaps some of this is "how to launch a platform 101", but we can't guess all the concerns everyone may have. Also, we're not necessarily looking to really kick start adoption for a wide audience right now. The platform lacks maturity on a number of levels to properly support that. We'll continue to work on our documentation and clarify some of th…

"Pretty apps isn't what you'd use Alan for" Wouldn't a visual model bulder speed up the creation of all those declarative data models?

It definitely could. However, written language is really powerful. We're still developing new features for the modeling language and keeping the cost of each iteration down is super important for us. A visual editor is something that would definitely help empower our target audience, but right now it would get in the way. I would love building something like that some time in the future though.

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#104

Post by Serow225 »

poseid wrote: post #92
Serow225 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, to me "low-code" is a lot more clear.

instead of "low-code" maybe "meta-level" or "super-level" programming ... :)

or just go with "declarative" programming, since that's kind of a term of art? or "intent-driven"?

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#105

Post by Serow225 »

klageveen wrote: post #85
Aeolun wrote: post #76

As much as I like the idea. There seems to be a fair number of requirements. I don't particularly feel like installing an 'alan' server, or an 'alan' connector just to test out my application. Is there any reason why 'alan run' couldn't do these things for me automatically and run it on my local host?

Well it could. We find in practice that it's easier to just have a server running "somewhere" (locally if you have the resources) and push applications to it. But if the feedback shows that the first-run experience needs to improve that's definitely an area we would be looking at.

My experience has been that it's valuable to have an easy way to spin up a local server/runtime stack, for a wide variety of reasons.

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#106

Post by Serow225 »

workmandan wrote: post #102
klageveen wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, I was so proud of that. You should bookmark it so you can enjoy it on a big screen later ;)

Also broken on my 24" monitor (Chrome on Windows)

Same for me, widescreen FF62 on Windows 10 FWIW

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#107

Post by klageveen »

drostie wrote: post #95
klageveen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Chris, how are you!? It's been a while man. We've definitely dug into it a lot deeper than last time you worked on it. As you say, once you get how the models work it sticks with you :)

I've been well. Landed a software job with a company called IntegriShield doing a sort of internet rent-a-cop work, now am writing apps for a mechanical contractor called US Engineering -- turns out the construction business always runs on razor-thin margins which is kinda nice because, like, reducing cost by 1% when construction margins are only ~5% causes a 20% improvement in net profit. This is great work, and I t…

Sounds like a good business to be in!

The permission model actually only landed a few weeks ago, so we haven't been able to fully appreciate what we did ourselves. You're right though, it's probably a pretty huge deal :)

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#108

Post by d0m »

klageveen wrote: post #89
ccleve wrote: post #86

I've long thought that this is the way applications should be built. 90% of what we do as app developers could be automated away. This looks really promising. That having been said, I'd like to echo some of the other comments here. You need better docs. As an app developer, I want to see some things right away: 1. What's the server written in? Can I see the code? It isn't clear which of your Github repos contain the…

Thanks for the feedback, this is exactly what we're looking for here. Perhaps some of this is "how to launch a platform 101", but we can't guess all the concerns everyone may have. Also, we're not necessarily looking to really kick start adoption for a wide audience right now. The platform lacks maturity on a number of levels to properly support that. We'll continue to work on our documentation and clarify some of th…

IMHO could show a UI demo written in a different language as a "side-app", as long as the core data model is in Alan; that would make it easier to see the power of Alan.

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#109

Post by pitay »

Kind of amusing that it is named after Alan Turing when one of its major features is not being Turing complete by default.

This effort for very high level code for building applications reminds me of Eve[1] as a non-traditional programming language (now not actively developed AFAIK, so more suitable for study than actual use). Both languages are designed to be accessible to people who aren't developers and making it simpler for people solving problems.

Love how Alan is trying to close the gap between requirements and actual code. At least for me, one of the things that has bugged me about writing in a language such as Java is tracing code to requirements. For Java the first thing to think of to solve this is discipline and complete documentation. I mean there are things like using a traceability matrix[2], but are there better ways to find or represent the relationship between requirements and code. There have been things commonly proposed to programmers such as Test Driven Design, but they are for making sure that the requirements are met by at least some of the code, not for tracing code back to requirements. Are there better ways to manually checking? Perhaps formal methods for tying requirements to every bit of code in a project, or anything else. Maybe languages and platforms like Alan are the way forward on this issue for a lot of things. Counterpoint, I don't know of any real effort from me or anyone I have worked near to trace code to requirements, the effort has been only to make sure requirements are satisfied, it doesn't seem to have caused any issues, so maybe it is only worth it for safety critical code.

[1] Eve: http://witheve.com/ [2] Traceability matrix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traceability_matrix

Re: Show HN: Alan – a low-code application platform

#110

Post by blobwalker »

codetrotter wrote: post #26
elviejo wrote: post #23

Some feedback: * "low code" is confusing When I started reading I thought low code, meant low "level" code, something like assembly or rust. After reading a lot in the page I saw it meant not writing imperative code. I think the term Model Driven Engineering would be more appropriate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-driven_engineering * How do I model business rules? How do I model a State machine? I want to spec…

> "low code" is confusing When I started reading I thought low code, meant low "level" code, something like assembly or rust. I expected that as well from the title but at the very start they link the meaning of the term so that those of us that don’t know what it means can quickly find out on Wikipedia. I think it’s best to do like they are doing and link the Wikipedia article.

Just read it as "4GL" and pretend it's the mid-80s again. Then it will all make sense.
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