Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

aragon.one

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 123 posts

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#101

Post by ReverseCold »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #100

I think Ethereum undermined their whole reason for existence when they did a fork in response to a valid contract because enough people did not like the results. The fact that they called it a hack when it explicitly followed the Ethereum guidelines calls into doubt the sincerity of the people behind Ethereum. http://www.coindesk.com/understanding-dao-hack-journalists/ If people want to actually have malleable contra…

This is why ethereum classic exists, but it's also shown that smart contacts are generally unreliable.

Random plug for non Turing complete smart contact systems like Decred.

(I don't own any decred, nor am I part of the team, I just idle in IRC.)

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#102

Post by mode80 »

mode80 wrote: post #91
joosters wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what's the point of doing the transaction with a digital contract in the first place? Weren't they meant to remove the need for trust or centralised arbitration? We already have well-established mechanisms to arbitrate these kind of disagreements, e.g. courts. Adding blockchains to the process just makes it more complicated for no gain.

A notable advantage of smart contracts is the flexibility to choose your own arbiter in advance -- a "chair expert" perhaps.

To those who asked: A smart contract runs with the predictability of code. Courts don't. In particular, arbitration clauses are often not upheld.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#103

Post by orthecreedence »

joosters wrote: post #73
primitivesuave wrote: post #45

Is there a way to pay for domain, DNS, and hosting costs with Ethereum? If so, one could build a wide-range of SaaS products that accept payment in Ethereum, and would be free of taxation and government regulation. While the SEC understandably exists to prevent defrauding of investors, this dashboard gives an investor perfect clarity into a company's financial strength and liabilities, and allows for an informed deci…

and would be free of taxation and government regulation Laws do not magically vanish when something goes into a blockchain.

Right. You can do all this stuff now, but with cash. If you don't want to report it, you don't have to. But you're still breaking the law and subject to serious penalty if the right people find out.

Also, all it takes is one lawsuit from an angry customer to pull back the veil on the ethereum libertopia, free of taxation and regulation, you've created.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#104

Post by UweSchmidt »

Analemma_ wrote: post #98
mode80 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A notable advantage of smart contracts is the flexibility to choose your own arbiter in advance -- a "chair expert" perhaps.

You can already do that. Parties entering into an analog contract can agree to binding arbitration with a mutually-agreed-on arbiter (like a "chair expert"), instead of resolution in the courts. Again: what is being gained by smart contracts?

A system could arise where things start small, and trust and reputation is built up over many transactions, similar to how money works post gold-standard. Then there's the idea of private blockchains, where actors already kinda trust each other anyway (transactions between banks) which may apply at some point. Gains would be mostly efficiency.

However when I tried some Ethereum development my impression was that most cryptocurrency people I met just hope that the value of their bitcoins goes up, or that they can sell related products or services. Many things seem to be financed by cryptocoin-money (not necessarily bad in itself) to keep the hype going, but it doesn't feel like a movement that wants to change things.

It's not like with open source where Stallman, Linus and many many other dreamt a dream but also built a lot of really high quality and important software. I don't see that kind of movement going on with Ethereum.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#105

Post by will_brown »

mode80 wrote: post #102
mode80 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A notable advantage of smart contracts is the flexibility to choose your own arbiter in advance -- a "chair expert" perhaps.

To those who asked: A smart contract runs with the predictability of code. Courts don't. In particular, arbitration clauses are often not upheld.

Courts run with the predictability of law/codes...it's one of the reason 90% of cases settle without trial.

If an arbitration clause isn't held up, it's not because of unpredictability of the court it's because the clause runs afoul of the actual law/code the court applies which is predictable. Moreover, smart contracts are not going to permit parties to circumvent law, in other words a smart contract arbitration clause would not be enforceable in a jurisdiction they are not otherwise enforceable.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#106

Post by seagreen »

DennisP wrote: post #78
seagreen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What language are the contracts written in? Do you have a specification of that language? EDIT: Nevermind, I see in an another comment that you're using Solidity. Thanks for the answer! Now I have a new question. What do you think about the claim that, "Solidity, while being an interesting proof of concept, is dangerously under-contained and very difficult to analyze statically." ( http://www.stephendiehl.com/posts/s…

Disclaimer: I write and audit Solidity for a living. The max-callstack issue isn't a problem anymore due to a change in the EVM. TheDAO was hit with a reentrant call. It's pretty easy to avoid that class of bugs by either (1) putting any external calls (including ether transfers) after all state changes, or (2) using address.send instead of address.call.value. Also, TheDAO was a very convoluted contract; better codin…

Thanks for the info. Glad this stuff is being taken seriously by the core part of the community.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#107

Post by mannykannot »

mode80 wrote: post #102
mode80 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A notable advantage of smart contracts is the flexibility to choose your own arbiter in advance -- a "chair expert" perhaps.

To those who asked: A smart contract runs with the predictability of code. Courts don't. In particular, arbitration clauses are often not upheld.

And with all the reliability and security of code. See, for example, the DAO fiasco.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#108

Post by contravariant »

mode80 wrote: post #102
mode80 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A notable advantage of smart contracts is the flexibility to choose your own arbiter in advance -- a "chair expert" perhaps.

To those who asked: A smart contract runs with the predictability of code. Courts don't. In particular, arbitration clauses are often not upheld.

Interestingly this can be considered both an argument against and in favour of smart contracts.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#109

Post by mark_l_watson »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #41
clavalle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one has the more general problem of enforceability of contracts, etc. If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have? I thought the point of crypto-contracts was to make enforcement as automatic as possible...if that is not fully true, are there any neutral verifications services that can hold things in escrow?

A crypto-contract can't evaluate the work you've delivered. If we enter into some arbitrary crypto-contract for me to build you a chair in exchange for 20 currencies, and I bring you a stump I hacked out of the woods, there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

Good point.

It might help if 'contracts' and payment amounts were small. In the Antifragile (book) sense: the fairness of any individual contract is fragile, rife with risk. However, in aggregation the system is antifragile (better than robust) as long as occasional bad deals are acceptable.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#110

Post by [deleted] »

smokeyj wrote: post #65
monkmartinez wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who or what backs up the arbitrator? This is why we have guns, police, prisons, and militaries and lawyers....

> Who or what backs up the arbitrator? Ethereum contracts are turing complete. The payout function can be contingent on either the buyer or arbitrators releasing the funds. The arbitrators can be determined before hand or rely on an external contract that offers arbitration services. The possibilities are truly endless.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN