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Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

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Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#11

Post by hnlmorg »

auxiliarymoose wrote: post #8
a1o wrote: post #4

What is BPF?

I'm guessing Berkeley Packet Filter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Packet_Filter This is why National Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA) guidance is the following: > Acronyms often confuse readers. Avoid them whenever possible. If an acronym is necessary for future reference, spell the full word and follow with the acronym in parentheses on the first reference. For example, The General Services Admini…

In fairness to the authors README, there isn't really any other BPFs in this domain and if someone didn't already know what BPF was, then this project wouldn't be of any interest to them (and would be a bad place to start on an BPF journey too).

So I can't blame the project's author for the lack of explanation about what BPF is. Particularly when it's just someone's personal project.

And before anyone complains about this comment: I do think the GP is completely fair in asking for clarification as to what BPF is too. There sometimes seems to be backlash on HN against people asking for a term to be explained. This comment isn't that.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#12

Post by ImJasonH »

auxiliarymoose wrote: post #8
a1o wrote: post #4

What is BPF?

I'm guessing Berkeley Packet Filter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Packet_Filter This is why National Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA) guidance is the following: > Acronyms often confuse readers. Avoid them whenever possible. If an acronym is necessary for future reference, spell the full word and follow with the acronym in parentheses on the first reference. For example, The General Services Admini…

What's NASA :)

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#13

Post by auxiliarymoose »

hnlmorg wrote: post #11
auxiliarymoose wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing Berkeley Packet Filter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Packet_Filter This is why National Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA) guidance is the following: > Acronyms often confuse readers. Avoid them whenever possible. If an acronym is necessary for future reference, spell the full word and follow with the acronym in parentheses on the first reference. For example, The General Services Admini…

In fairness to the authors README, there isn't really any other BPFs in this domain and if someone didn't already know what BPF was, then this project wouldn't be of any interest to them (and would be a bad place to start on an BPF journey too). So I can't blame the project's author for the lack of explanation about what BPF is. Particularly when it's just someone's personal project. And before anyone complains about…

Sure, but if you are sharing with a general audience (where people aren't necessarily coming from your own domain) it's a good idea to make the writing accessible.

My first thought would have been Band-Pass Filter, which is also a filter potentially related to computer systems.

I work in an industry with a lot of Three-Letter Acronyms (TLAs) and eXtended Three-Letter Acronyms (XTLAs) (sometimes known as Four-Letter Acronyms (FLAs)), and there they are often overloaded in their meanings. So in my experience, being clear about the definition is helpful to readers so they can immediately understand the document without having to triangulate meanings from the rest of the document.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#14

Post by auxiliarymoose »

ImJasonH wrote: post #12
auxiliarymoose wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing Berkeley Packet Filter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Packet_Filter This is why National Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA) guidance is the following: > Acronyms often confuse readers. Avoid them whenever possible. If an acronym is necessary for future reference, spell the full word and follow with the acronym in parentheses on the first reference. For example, The General Services Admini…

What's NASA :)

~Well, if you asked a randomly-chosen person (technical or non-technical) they would probably say NASA is "the organization that does the space things" — it's pretty well-known~

~On the other hand, BPF means different things in different domains, and isn't ubiquitous in the same way~

Edit: I should have written it out, that's on me :-)

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#15

Post by hnlmorg »

auxiliarymoose wrote: post #13
hnlmorg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness to the authors README, there isn't really any other BPFs in this domain and if someone didn't already know what BPF was, then this project wouldn't be of any interest to them (and would be a bad place to start on an BPF journey too). So I can't blame the project's author for the lack of explanation about what BPF is. Particularly when it's just someone's personal project. And before anyone complains about…

Sure, but if you are sharing with a general audience (where people aren't necessarily coming from your own domain) it's a good idea to make the writing accessible. My first thought would have been Band-Pass Filter, which is also a filter potentially related to computer systems. I work in an industry with a lot of Three-Letter Acronyms (TLAs) and eXtended Three-Letter Acronyms (XTLAs) (sometimes known as Four-Letter A…

But again, this isn't intended for a general audience.

Anyone who might need this would already know what BPF is. And anyone who isn't familiar with the term BPF in this context wouldn't be the target audience for this.

It's also worth noting that BPF isn't ever referred to in it's non-acronym form. Literally no-one in the field calls this "Berkeley Packet Filter". Just like nobody calls PHP "PHP: Hypertext Processor" (or whatever backronym they've decided on this week), nor SQL as Structured Query Language. The name for this technically literally is just referred to as "BPF".

So while I agree with your point in general -- it's not really a fair complaint in this specific occurrence.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#16

Post by knome »

a1o wrote: post #4

What is BPF?

'berkeley packet filters', these days 'extended berkeley packet filters', are little program snippets you can inject into the linux kernel from userland programs to run logic on hooks on various events without the need to switch back to userspace.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#17

Post by bluejekyll »

sparrc wrote: post #3

I'm primarily a Go developer and love the language and will defend it for most use-cases, but to be honest BPF seems like Rust's place to shine.

I feel like every language has its fans. What invariably happens is that people want their favorite language to work in every situation that they might need to work.

Personally I would choose Rust as well, but I would choose Rust for almost everything I do. I can see why a Go developer would want a similar experience.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#18

Post by auxiliarymoose »

hnlmorg wrote: post #15
auxiliarymoose wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if you are sharing with a general audience (where people aren't necessarily coming from your own domain) it's a good idea to make the writing accessible. My first thought would have been Band-Pass Filter, which is also a filter potentially related to computer systems. I work in an industry with a lot of Three-Letter Acronyms (TLAs) and eXtended Three-Letter Acronyms (XTLAs) (sometimes known as Four-Letter A…

But again, this isn't intended for a general audience. Anyone who might need this would already know what BPF is. And anyone who isn't familiar with the term BPF in this context wouldn't be the target audience for this. It's also worth noting that BPF isn't ever referred to in it's non-acronym form. Literally no-one in the field calls this "Berkeley Packet Filter". Just like nobody calls PHP "PHP: Hypertext Processor…

Well, it's posted on Hacker News which is a general audience including people working on electrical/signal/audio/radio-frequency systems among other things (not just low-level network code) where BPF has a different meaning, so I think disambiguation is appropriate.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#19

Post by hnlmorg »

auxiliarymoose wrote: post #18
hnlmorg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But again, this isn't intended for a general audience. Anyone who might need this would already know what BPF is. And anyone who isn't familiar with the term BPF in this context wouldn't be the target audience for this. It's also worth noting that BPF isn't ever referred to in it's non-acronym form. Literally no-one in the field calls this "Berkeley Packet Filter". Just like nobody calls PHP "PHP: Hypertext Processor…

Well, it's posted on Hacker News which is a general audience including people working on electrical/signal/audio/radio-frequency systems among other things (not just low-level network code) where BPF has a different meaning, so I think disambiguation is appropriate.

> Well, it's posted on Hacker News which is a general audience including people working on electrical/signal/audio/RF systems among other things (not just low-level network code) where BPF has a different meaning, so I think disambiguation is appropriate.

And it's been explained on HN exactly what it is. So problem solved.

By the way, I noticed you didn't follow your own recommendation for the "RF" acronym in your comment. Nor "NASA" in your first reply. Perhaps you should check your own comments before you criticize others for doing the same.

Maybe you should also leave a comment in the Mullvad story (currently #1 on HN) that nobody has explained the VPN acronym there. Likewise for the threads where people reminisce about BASIC, of which there have been many lately. They're also only obvious if you already know the subject matter.

Re: Show HN: Write your BPF programs in Go, not C

#20

Post by Retr0id »

auxiliarymoose wrote: post #8
a1o wrote: post #4

What is BPF?

I'm guessing Berkeley Packet Filter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Packet_Filter This is why National Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA) guidance is the following: > Acronyms often confuse readers. Avoid them whenever possible. If an acronym is necessary for future reference, spell the full word and follow with the acronym in parentheses on the first reference. For example, The General Services Admini…

Spelling out Berkeley Packet Filter doesn't really tell you anything about what eBPF actually is.
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