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Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

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Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#11

Post by afshinmeh »

time0ut wrote: post #5

Very interesting. I just started researching this topic yesterday to build something for adjacent use cases (sandboxing LLM authored programs). My initial prototype is using a wasm based sandbox, but I want something more robust and flexible. Some of my use cases are very latency sensitive. What sort of overhead are you seeing?

I added a benchmark test (Apple M5) and on average I'm seeing 10ms overhead. I added a benchmark section to the repo as well https://github.com/afshinm/zerobox?tab=readme-ov-file#perfor...

Also, I'm literally wrapping Claude with zerobox now! No latency issues at all.

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#12

Post by simonw »

This looks really good - the CLI interface design is solid, and I especially like the secrets / network proxy pattern - but the thing it needs most is copiously detailed documentation about exactly how the sandbox mechanism works - and how it was tested.

There are dozens of projects like this emerging right now. They all share the same challenge: establishing credibility.

I'm loathe to spend time evaluating them unless I've seen robust evidence that the architecture is well thought through and the tool has been extensively tested already.

My ideal sandbox is one that's been used by hundreds of people in a high-stakes environment already. That's a tall order, but if I'm going to spend time evaluating one the next best thing is documentation that teaches me something about sandboxing and demonstrates to me how competent and thorough the process of building this one has been.

UPDATE: On further inspection there's a lot that I like about this one. The CLI design is neat, it builds on a strong underlying library (the OpenAI Codex implementation) and the features it does add - mainly the network proxy being able to modify headers to inject secrets - are genuinely great ideas.

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#13

Post by afshinmeh »

wepple wrote: post #10

You should probably add a huge disclaimer that this is an untested, experimental project. Related, a direct comparison to other sandboxes and what you offer over those would be nice

I agree to some extend. I'm using the OpenAI Codex crates for sandboxing though, which I think it's properly tested? They launched last year and iterated many times. I will add a note though, thanks!

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#14

Post by afshinmeh »

simonw wrote: post #12

This looks really good - the CLI interface design is solid, and I especially like the secrets / network proxy pattern - but the thing it needs most is copiously detailed documentation about exactly how the sandbox mechanism works - and how it was tested. There are dozens of projects like this emerging right now. They all share the same challenge: establishing credibility. I'm loathe to spend time evaluating them unle…

Simon! Thanks. I appreciate your comment and totally agreed. I will improve the docs as well as tests.

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#16

Post by simonw »

jbverschoor wrote: post #8

Again, it’s blacklisting so kind of impossible to get right. I’ve looked at this many times, but in order for things to properly work, you have to create a huge, huge, huge, huge sandbox file. Especially for your application that you any kind of Apple framework.

This doesn't look like it's blacklisting to me. It's an allowlist system:

  --allow-net=api.openai.com # Explicitly allow access to that host

  --allow-write=config.txt # Explicitly allow write to that file

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#17

Post by afshinmeh »

jbverschoor wrote: post #8

Again, it’s blacklisting so kind of impossible to get right. I’ve looked at this many times, but in order for things to properly work, you have to create a huge, huge, huge, huge sandbox file. Especially for your application that you any kind of Apple framework.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing that. Could you elaborate a bit more? I'd like to understand the use case is a bit better.

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#18

Post by afshinmeh »

ebb_earl_co wrote: post #7
eluded7 wrote: post #4

Personally I would probably always reach for a docker container if I want a sandboxed command that can run identically anywhere. I appreciate that alternate sandboxing tools can reduce some of the heavier parts of docker though (i.e. building or downloading the correct image) How would you compare this tool to say bubblewrap https://github.com/containers/

The text says that it uses OS-level tools, specifically bubble wrap on Linux.

That's right. It uses the same kernel mechanisms as Docker, the runtime is different though (bwrap on linux, seatbelt on mac, etc.)

Re: Show HN: Zerobox – Sandbox any command with file, network, credential controls

#20

Post by afshinmeh »

simonw wrote: post #16
jbverschoor wrote: post #8

Again, it’s blacklisting so kind of impossible to get right. I’ve looked at this many times, but in order for things to properly work, you have to create a huge, huge, huge, huge sandbox file. Especially for your application that you any kind of Apple framework.

This doesn't look like it's blacklisting to me. It's an allowlist system: --allow-net=api.openai.com # Explicitly allow access to that host --allow-write=config.txt # Explicitly allow write to that file

That's correct. The pattern is: reads allowed, write and network I/O blocked by default.

```

zerobox -- curl https://example.com

Could not resolve host: example.com

```

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