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Show HN: HTML for People

htmlforpeople.com

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Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#11

Post by messo »

I have tried so many times to convince non-technical people that they can put together their own website quite easily, but so often they think I'm joking and that it requires a lot of effort.

Next time I'll refer the to this site and ask them to give it half an hour and see what they can create in that time. I know that so many would get hooked if they just get that first taste of "wow, i just published something on the actual web!"

@blakewatson: Any plans to add i18n to the site and accepting pull requests for translations?

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#12

Post by _lvbh »

simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#13

Post by forbiddenvoid »

I love the idea and I'm thrilled to see more sites like this out there. But I do think this assumes a level of computer literacy that isn't consistent with typical, non-technical users.

Step 1 starts with:

> Pick a location on your computer and create a folder. Call it my-site or something similar.

You've already lost the vast majority of people right here. There are a shockingly large number of people out there that use computers EVERY day that won't know how to do this.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#14

Post by stego-tech »

We sorely need more of this. HTML was the first language I actually understood (although BASIC was my first ever), and left me feeling empowered to carve out my own survival on the internet. While layering CSS and Javascript aren't bad decisions on their face, I do think they combine to create a steep barrier to entry for most newcomers as they're believed to be "Core" to the language of HTML itself.

Kudos to the author(s) for the site. I'll have to add it to my arsenal as a "next step" for folks who want something more custom than WP/Ghost on PikaPods w/ a theme, or who just really want to be totally independent.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#15

Post by jimbosis »

I plan to dig in deeper, but this looks like a great introduction to building websites.

I teach a one semester high school Web Design class and currently use a mixture of lessons from these two for learning the basics of making pages by hand with HTML and CSS:

https://internetingishard.netlify.app/

https://www.washington.edu/accesscomputing/webd2/student/ind...

This looks very promising and could supplant or at the very least supplement those.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#16

Post by MathMonkeyMan »

_lvbh wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

My dad was asking me a question about backing something up onto Google Drive, or saving space on some cloud storage account, or something.

He was using the mental model of files and folders -- that files exist and refer to stored bytes, and that there can be one or several copies of a file. There can be links to a file that take very little space relative to the file.

I had to tell him that I have no idea what sort of storage model these services expose, if any, and that the concept of a file system backed by a storage device is not the analogy that applications expose to their users these days.

He eventually understood, but I could feel his frustration -- that the mental model he had was really just chosen by a past moment in application design, and that what replaced it is nebulous and disempowering.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#17

Post by [deleted] »

have_faith wrote: post #10
divbzero wrote: post #4

I love the order of tutorial, starting simple to deploy something first: 1. Use Notepad/TextEdit to create a plain text index.html . 2. Deploy index.html to Neocities or similar. 3. Add content with headings and images. And only then going back to: 4. Make it proper HTML with and . 5. Upgrade Notepad/TextEdit to Visual Studio Code.

You're probably already aware, but , and is optional in HTML5, so it's a "proper" document without them.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#18

Post by Retr0id »

forbiddenvoid wrote: post #13

I love the idea and I'm thrilled to see more sites like this out there. But I do think this assumes a level of computer literacy that isn't consistent with typical, non-technical users. Step 1 starts with: > Pick a location on your computer and create a folder. Call it my-site or something similar. You've already lost the vast majority of people right here. There are a shockingly large number of people out there that…

I suspect even a majority of HN users visited the page on a mobile device, and were not in a position to immediately follow the instructions.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#19

Post by tiffanyh »

_lvbh wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

This is great. The decision to skip CSS by depending on https://simplecss.org/ is smart - CSS is a whole other thing, and having that on top of basic HTML would be pretty intimidating. I did worry a bit about https://htmlforpeople.com/zero-to-internet-your-first-websit... - "Step 1. Create a folder on your computer" - because apparently a large number of people these days don't understand files and folders at all! ht…

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

It can be even worse.

I've seen younger generation only use Google Docs and streaming services (music/video) and not even understand what a "file" is, because everything is just on the internet.

Re: Show HN: HTML for People

#20

Post by username135 »

MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #16
_lvbh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how bad the mobile epidemic has gotten. There are kids coming into a Computer Science degree that can't figure out how to unzip a zip or even finding out where files get downloaded to. (Fwiw, those I know dropped out before 2nd year)

My dad was asking me a question about backing something up onto Google Drive, or saving space on some cloud storage account, or something. He was using the mental model of files and folders -- that files exist and refer to stored bytes, and that there can be one or several copies of a file. There can be links to a file that take very little space relative to the file. I had to tell him that I have no idea what sort o…

Can you elaborate on what you told your father?

When i use google drive, the interface appears to be folder/file structure. Whether it is or is made to look that way is irrelevant, i suppose, as long as it works that way. I can also increase storage by downloading/deleting things so Im a bit flummoxed.

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