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Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

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Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#11

Post by anyfoo »

ink_13 wrote: post #8
anyfoo wrote: post #6

They never look right. It's not just the fact that it should be 9x16 instead of 8x16, or that sometimes (often?) the aspect ratio is off, it's something fundamental about how that 9x16 VGA font was rendered on CRTs. A really good CRT emulation on a really good flatscreen monitor can maybe simulate the VGA text mode experience of the day, but so far I haven't really seen it.

int10h.org has the 9x16 version, also with corrected aspect ratio as it would have appeared on systems with non-square pixels

I know, very familiar with that one, and still, it's not the same.

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#12

Post by jareklupinski »

anyfoo wrote: post #11
ink_13 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

int10h.org has the 9x16 version, also with corrected aspect ratio as it would have appeared on systems with non-square pixels

I know, very familiar with that one, and still, it's not the same.

is it because monitors of the time were all slightly 'bent' outwards?

nothing was a perfect square

https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#13

Post by fouc »

anyfoo wrote: post #6

They never look right. It's not just the fact that it should be 9x16 instead of 8x16, or that sometimes (often?) the aspect ratio is off, it's something fundamental about how that 9x16 VGA font was rendered on CRTs. A really good CRT emulation on a really good flatscreen monitor can maybe simulate the VGA text mode experience of the day, but so far I haven't really seen it.

Did you adjust your resolution to compare? the 15" CRT was usually 800x600 or 1024x768 in those days.

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#14

Post by anyfoo »

jareklupinski wrote: post #12
anyfoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, very familiar with that one, and still, it's not the same.

is it because monitors of the time were all slightly 'bent' outwards? nothing was a perfect square https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term

I think it's much more than that. It's also scanlines, and more generally how a pixel looks when it's represented by electrons hitting the phosphor through a shadow mask. Even when a shadow mask is made up of holes, not slits (Trinitron), those holes do not correspond to pixels. This, the particular characteristics of the phosphor, and the fact that the phosphor is behind glass, probably all add up to a very certain look.

By the way, there definitely were "perfect rectangle" (I assume you don't actually mean "square", but rather just non-curved) CRTs later on, or at least very nearly so.

But yeah, maybe I should try the project you've linked, it may really be a good simulation of it. (Though I wouldn't want to use it as my "regular" terminal.)

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#15

Post by anyfoo »

fouc wrote: post #13
anyfoo wrote: post #6

They never look right. It's not just the fact that it should be 9x16 instead of 8x16, or that sometimes (often?) the aspect ratio is off, it's something fundamental about how that 9x16 VGA font was rendered on CRTs. A really good CRT emulation on a really good flatscreen monitor can maybe simulate the VGA text mode experience of the day, but so far I haven't really seen it.

Did you adjust your resolution to compare? the 15" CRT was usually 800x600 or 1024x768 in those days.

720x350 for the pervasive 80x25 text mode actually (a resolution which wasn’t commonly used at that time for graphics modes otherwise).

I’ve mentioned in another comment what I think may be missing for it to look right.

And I’m not really being nitpicky I think. It really evokes rather little about what this era looked like with “just” the right pixels at the right place.

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#16

Post by conradolandia »

Leynos wrote: post #4
pimlottc wrote: post #2

This seems like a bit of a hodgepodge; I'm not sure all these character sets were supported back in the DOS days and some of the character, like the runic ones, seem too big. It would be nice to know where these are all sourced from. EDIT: without the extra letter spacing added in the character samples, you can see how some of the wider characters run into their neighbors: javascript:document.styleSheets[0].insertRul…

I wondered if the runes were taken from an Ultima game, but they don't match those in screenshots of Ultima V nor VI.

It's elder futhark, younger futhark and anglo-frisian runes. They are part of the Unicode spec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_(Unicode_block)

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#17

Post by always2slow »

anyfoo wrote: post #14
jareklupinski wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it because monitors of the time were all slightly 'bent' outwards? nothing was a perfect square https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term

I think it's much more than that. It's also scanlines, and more generally how a pixel looks when it's represented by electrons hitting the phosphor through a shadow mask. Even when a shadow mask is made up of holes, not slits (Trinitron), those holes do not correspond to pixels. This, the particular characteristics of the phosphor, and the fact that the phosphor is behind glass, probably all add up to a very certain…

I use it as my regular terminal, works great.

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#18

Post by theandrewbailey »

ptspts wrote: post #3

VGA text mode displayed 8x16 fonts as 9x16, either repeating the rightmost column or displaying an empty rightmost column. Is there a 9x16 version of this font?

> either repeating the rightmost column or displaying an empty rightmost column

I always look for the lowercase m. All the strokes should be equally thick, but on 8x16 it has a thin middle stroke.

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#19

Post by anyfoo »

always2slow wrote: post #17
anyfoo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's much more than that. It's also scanlines, and more generally how a pixel looks when it's represented by electrons hitting the phosphor through a shadow mask. Even when a shadow mask is made up of holes, not slits (Trinitron), those holes do not correspond to pixels. This, the particular characteristics of the phosphor, and the fact that the phosphor is behind glass, probably all add up to a very certain…

I use it as my regular terminal, works great.

I’ve come to rely on a lot of the Terminal.app features, as well as its speed.

Re: Show HN: Original 8x16 ASCII Fixed Width Font: Classic Console Neue

#20

Post by owl57 »

anyfoo wrote: post #15
fouc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you adjust your resolution to compare? the 15" CRT was usually 800x600 or 1024x768 in those days.

720x350 for the pervasive 80x25 text mode actually (a resolution which wasn’t commonly used at that time for graphics modes otherwise). I’ve mentioned in another comment what I think may be missing for it to look right. And I’m not really being nitpicky I think. It really evokes rather little about what this era looked like with “just” the right pixels at the right place.

> 720x350 for the pervasive 80x25 text mode

With 9x16 font, shouldn't it be 720x400?

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