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Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

timelock.dev

11–20 of 149 posts

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#11

[flagged]

> wonder if a smart contract could be useful in this scenario

It could not, at least with the capabilities of EVM or other mainstream smart-contract platform (I don't even thing it would be possible in theory but I may be wrong on this)

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#12
post #5

The only way that I know to encrypt something into the future is generating an N-bit key and hoping someone will go through the trouble of cracking it when that becomes feasible. That involves lots of assumptions (e.g., how computing power develops and how much that person cares). The website's implementation is this: > A group of [orgs] holds the keys. There are 18 separate organizations running a total of 22 nodes,…

The problem with "feasible" is that the time precision is poor. Feasibility is modulated by the value of the secret. If the secret exposes $1 billion in value, people will happily throw $100 million worth of compute at it.

I'm not an expert on DeFi but could we do something more time-precise using the Ethereum blockchain and a smart contract?

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#13

[flagged]

No it requires a threshold of 12 out of 18 keys to be acquired by an attacker. Jurisdictional resilience is the standard technique for preventing this kind of attack--e.g. having operators in the USA, Russia, Japan, Israel, Europe, South America, India, Singapore, etc.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#14

Whats the point of this if it's not decentralized/algorithmic based. Who knows if this service will go down or something? Might aswell just do this with one entity m

HTLC would do the same in a distributed and trustless fashion and yet it's important to know League of Entropy is a bunch of distributed crypto organizations like Chainsafe or the Ethereum Foundation.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#15

Whats the point of this if it's not decentralized/algorithmic based. Who knows if this service will go down or something? Might aswell just do this with one entity m

There is no decentralized algorithm for timelock encryption. No such scheme exists. Distributed is the best you're going to get without a radical breakthrough, and that's exactly what TFA is.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#16
post #14

Whats the point of this if it's not decentralized/algorithmic based. Who knows if this service will go down or something? Might aswell just do this with one entity m

HTLC would do the same in a distributed and trustless fashion and yet it's important to know League of Entropy is a bunch of distributed crypto organizations like Chainsafe or the Ethereum Foundation.

I assume you mean a verifiable compute function rather than hash time-lock contract, as the latter can't be used for encryption. But that's not really a timelock either: it only sets a lower bound on the amount of compute required. But "compute" here is abstract, and when the conversion from "required hashes" to "time elapsed" can vary by 6-10 orders of magnitude, it stops having any appreciable meaning.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#17
Here's a way to encrypt something with an actual timelock, which works because physics. More specifically, it works because there is a maximum speed that information can travel through space: the speed of light.

Step 1: Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft. Also give the spacecraft a communication system and a long-lived RTG (an energy source getting its energy from the decay of some radioactive materials).

Step 2: Send the spacecraft to land on the surface a distant body in the solar system, such as one of the moons of Neptune.

Step 3: To encrypt a message such that it's guaranteed to not be cracked in less than some specified time, encrypt it several times, using the known named public keys.

To decrypt the message, you've got to send it out to the distant spacecraft and ask it to decrypt the outer layer of encryption, using the private key corresponding to the outer layer's public key. It does that and you get back a message but it might still have several layers of encryption. Repeat until all those layers are removed.

There are tricks to speed things up by sending a spacecraft out towards Neptune, but they don't speed things up too much (because spacecraft travel much slower than light). The amount of speedup possible is left as an exercise for the reader. There's still a lower bound on the required time until full decryption.

Inspired by the TOR network.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#18

Whats the point of this if it's not decentralized/algorithmic based. Who knows if this service will go down or something? Might aswell just do this with one entity m

There is no decentralized algorithm for timelock encryption. No such scheme exists. Distributed is the best you're going to get without a radical breakthrough, and that's exactly what TFA is.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#19
post #12
post #5

The only way that I know to encrypt something into the future is generating an N-bit key and hoping someone will go through the trouble of cracking it when that becomes feasible. That involves lots of assumptions (e.g., how computing power develops and how much that person cares). The website's implementation is this: > A group of [orgs] holds the keys. There are 18 separate organizations running a total of 22 nodes,…

The problem with "feasible" is that the time precision is poor. Feasibility is modulated by the value of the secret. If the secret exposes $1 billion in value, people will happily throw $100 million worth of compute at it. I'm not an expert on DeFi but could we do something more time-precise using the Ethereum blockchain and a smart contract?

> could we do something more time-precise using the Ethereum blockchain and a smart contract?

I think only if you want a transaction to move forward at a certain time, and are confident that a majority of network members will not conspire to alter your smart contract.

Hiding information in a smart contract: I don't know of a way that could be done, but I'm not up-to-date on this stuff either (I left that scene after Bitcoin outgrew the tech demo phase and became popular as a "so long as a majority keeps buying and holding, everyone's coins are worth insane amounts!" scheme)

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#20
post #17

Here's a way to encrypt something with an actual timelock, which works because physics. More specifically, it works because there is a maximum speed that information can travel through space: the speed of light. Step 1: Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft. Also give the spacecraft a communication system and a long-lived RTG (an energy source getting its en…

> Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft

I suppose, more practically, you could just put the private key in an envelope and bury it deep in a shipping container with a destination across the ocean. While in transit it's pretty damn hard to get to it.

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