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Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

jotte.ai

11–20 of 81 posts

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#11
post #7
post #2

I am glad to see more stuff with graph based AI here. I have a running bet with a friend about whether future is going to be OBM (One Big Model) or LoLM (Lots of Little Models). I'm strongly in the LoLM/graph camp and have been working in that direction as well: https://github.com/Miserlou/Helix

helix looks amazing! that's exactly the kind of thing i'm looking to burn through openai credits with.

Cheers! I've got loads and loads of ideas for it, but can't seem to find the time to hack on them at the moment while building a SaaS at the same time. When we get a proper ChatGPT API endpoint it'll really start to get interesting.

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#12
post #2

I am glad to see more stuff with graph based AI here. I have a running bet with a friend about whether future is going to be OBM (One Big Model) or LoLM (Lots of Little Models). I'm strongly in the LoLM/graph camp and have been working in that direction as well: https://github.com/Miserlou/Helix

Hard endorse

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#13
Looks great, and def something I would try. What's the story on the waitlist, how soon do you anticipate granting accounts? I have two novels I'm working on, both have very detailed chapter breakdowns and a few chapters written for each. I have more story ideas that are roughed out and a more brief outline that could also be further developed with a tool like this.

I wonder if it would be possible to seed something like this with sample chapters I've already written to help guide the style or 'voice' of the writing. Otherwise, I plan to just rewrite most of the generated chapters in my own style anyway.

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#15
post #10

What exactly is the use case for "longform writing by AI"? Profiting from mass-produced zero-effort novels?

Just as ChatGPT seems pretty capable at summarizing text, an AI with "unlimited memory" could potentially answer analytical questions about larger datasets and non-linear data (in the sense that prose is read from start-to-finish). The OP is most excited about this ability to remember to create more structured longford outputs with internal consistency (e.g., asking questions about a fantasy universe that respects th…

E.g. you can imagine implementing an AI D&D dungeon master this way. It could even trigger things like (AI-synthesized) music at the right time.

Or you could build an AI girlfriend/conversation partner.

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#16

What exactly is the use case for "longform writing by AI"? Profiting from mass-produced zero-effort novels?

At very minimum, better novels.

Current text transformers are horrendous in writing long form stories (ie, longer than 1 page).

Because they don't have a concept of long-term memory. It has to keep everything in its short term memory (the context window), which is at most 2k words right now. Everything else is discarded, so the AI is unable to keep track of past events.

This AI probably tries to summarise past events into short summaries. Sort of like how humans don't remember details of past events (What did you eat last week), only tracking important or unusual events. This helps massively optimize the memory of the AI

Novels are probably the grand challenge in text-AIs, because they require multiple things.

1. Long term memory

2. Multi-party state tracking (What happened to whom, how is relationship graph between multiple characters changing, what is happening in the background, or the world, despite not being mentioned in the text explicitly)

3. Multi-party theory of mind (The AI must infer the internal mental state of characters despite not being explicit in text)

4. Accurate understanding of human motivations/desires, which are the driving force behind stories.

As such, AIs that can write long fictional stories is also capable of: 1. Deception (Plot twist/surprises) 2. Emotional manipulation (Pulling your heart strings) 3. Long term planning (The simulated characters need to plan long term, with an effect on the world-state)

Needless to say, it will be extremely dangerous. But that AI will also master therapy, sales, supervising children, customer service etc, as it now has an strong understanding of human behaviour.

Still, all of that is quite a few years away. In the meantime, AIs that can assist human fiction writers is very possible, humans do the long term tracking and comprehension, the AI can help fill in dialogue, polish up writing styles, describe scenery or objects etc.

Novel writers are a great testing ground despite limited economic value, because novel writing AIs are risk-free and error-tolerant. Novel writers are generally also extremely excited about AIs, unlike artists.

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#17

What exactly is the use case for "longform writing by AI"? Profiting from mass-produced zero-effort novels?

At very minimum, better novels. Current text transformers are horrendous in writing long form stories (ie, longer than 1 page). Because they don't have a concept of long-term memory. It has to keep everything in its short term memory (the context window), which is at most 2k words right now. Everything else is discarded, so the AI is unable to keep track of past events. This AI probably tries to summarise past events…

Why would we want an AI that writes novels though? Is this a "to see if we can" thing?

Let's say this or some future AI system writes better novels than any human author at a fraction of the cost. Novel writing is solved.

What will we have achieved?

I wish I could opt out of this world you want to create, where if you achieve your vision, I will be utterly useless and obsolete.

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#18
I'm excited to give this a try.

Long story short, I worked through a series of concepts with a designer friend last year using GPT-3 with a similar target: longform. Our approach was not interactive, but rather that the need was for a batch mode, overnight tool.

I'm not really interested in having yet another JS library interrupt my real-time flow, which is quite quick, but is easily interrupted and I feel like we're at an inflection point where between grammarly and gmail our flow is something we remark about having when we read Csikszentmihalyi 20 years ago.

The results were pretty startling when using a corpus of text from a great writer, but less so with a smaller corpus of wanna-be David Foster Wallace work.

The one part of this that caused me to pause is this:

https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/2277...

That is, the pre-order traversal vs. depth-first-search.

I'm outta my depth here not having a PhD in data structures and algorithms. My point is that from an authoring and marketing perspective, it would be clearer to me as an outsider and consumer, if the animation writ large the difference in terms of node traversal. Even after reading the stack exchange, you can see that I'm not alone in parsing this as the comments indicate the confusion. Without turning this into a Turing lecture, there must be a prosthetic device for understanding the deeper, underlying infrastructure.

Can you help?

Re: Show HN: Graph-based AI for longform writing

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At very minimum, better novels. Current text transformers are horrendous in writing long form stories (ie, longer than 1 page). Because they don't have a concept of long-term memory. It has to keep everything in its short term memory (the context window), which is at most 2k words right now. Everything else is discarded, so the AI is unable to keep track of past events. This AI probably tries to summarise past events…

Why would we want an AI that writes novels though? Is this a "to see if we can" thing? Let's say this or some future AI system writes better novels than any human author at a fraction of the cost. Novel writing is solved. What will we have achieved? I wish I could opt out of this world you want to create, where if you achieve your vision, I will be utterly useless and obsolete.

As I said: "that AI will also master therapy, sales, supervising children, customer service etc, as it now has an strong understanding of human behaviour."

Novel writing is like the training ground for emotional intelligence in AIs. Fiction writing itself is not economically important, but the skills learnt from it is.

As a passionate hobby writer myself. I say you should actually go and try the writing tools, sudowrite/verb.ai are examples. Once you start using them, you start realizing how much they suck at writing stories, and your worries will go away. Unlike art AI, fiction writing AI has not really improved significantly. The core challenges are unsolved since the days of GPT-2.

There's also little research money coming in. Having a truthful, helpful, inoffensive AI is the polar opposite of what you want in a story AI, which should be deceitful, aggressive, and offensive.

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