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Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

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Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#11

Post by delusional »

Silica6149 wrote: post #9
delusional wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be a little elitist, but if you're not going to use vim the way it's really made to be used, why even bother? I get that `mouse=a` makes it more familiar, but if you're always going to reach for your mouse, you're never going to really get used to the motions.

I think they were speaking from a total beginner's perspective, and how to get them up to speed as fast as possible. I felt the same way when first learning vim, since it was completely different from the code editors I'd used in the past, it was strange not being able to use the mouse in the way I was used to.

I get that, but that strangeness is what pushes you to learn. I find that if I can do something suboptimal, but familiar, it takes way longer for me to change my habits because my subconscious keeps thinking in terms of the familiar.

I find it much more useful to remove the ability to even do the wrong thing, than to simply try and will myself to do the right one.

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#12

Post by manx »

delusional wrote: post #8
MatthiasPortzel wrote: post #3

My pet peeve is Vim tutorials that start with "use hjkl to move around" instead of "use `set mouse=a` to turn on the mouse." In my opinion you need to make sure that you are very clearly disclaiming that you are teaching a harder way of doing things in exchange for incredibly small productivity gains that will be realized years in the future, if ever. (This is basically a copy-paste of previous comments I’ve made, I…

This may be a little elitist, but if you're not going to use vim the way it's really made to be used, why even bother? I get that `mouse=a` makes it more familiar, but if you're always going to reach for your mouse, you're never going to really get used to the motions.

Vim was designed on qwerty keyboards. On other layouts (e.g. neo2) hjkl are not in a row.

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#13

Post by Silica6149 »

delusional wrote: post #11
Silica6149 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they were speaking from a total beginner's perspective, and how to get them up to speed as fast as possible. I felt the same way when first learning vim, since it was completely different from the code editors I'd used in the past, it was strange not being able to use the mouse in the way I was used to.

I get that, but that strangeness is what pushes you to learn. I find that if I can do something suboptimal, but familiar, it takes way longer for me to change my habits because my subconscious keeps thinking in terms of the familiar. I find it much more useful to remove the ability to even do the wrong thing, than to simply try and will myself to do the right one.

Oh yes, when I was trying to fully learn vim, I had the mentality that I could just practice it for 10 minutes a day and be able to use it while editing code.

The remaining time I would edit code like normal with vscode, so it turned out that I wasn't really able to pick up vim and use it well.

It wasn't until I switched to a different keyboard layout that I decided to move over to vim cold turkey, and was actually able to learn vim and retain it.

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#14

Post by vscode-plz-stop »

MatthiasPortzel wrote: post #3

My pet peeve is Vim tutorials that start with "use hjkl to move around" instead of "use `set mouse=a` to turn on the mouse." In my opinion you need to make sure that you are very clearly disclaiming that you are teaching a harder way of doing things in exchange for incredibly small productivity gains that will be realized years in the future, if ever. (This is basically a copy-paste of previous comments I’ve made, I…

I just created this account to say that I agree wholeheartedly 100%. People always ask me, "How do I get better at Vim?" or say "Vim is too hard" etc, and I always say `set mouse=a` isn't just a gimmick, it's a _very_ useful feature...

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#15

Post by dash2 »

I really want to like vim and I love some things about it, like the ability to move chunks about with only the keyboard. But so many things about it kill me. Like, why can't I hit right at the end of a line, and move to the next line? Who thinks that is a good idea? Also, why do I have to have a special mode to insert things? Having to change modes just seems so complex and unintuitive. And why does the help system never tell me what I want?

The frustration is that probably there are fixes for all these things, which if I were an expert I would know. But meanwhile I can use an ordinary visual text editor and I don't have to learn anything new.

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#16

Post by Silica6149 »

vscode-plz-stop wrote: post #14
MatthiasPortzel wrote: post #3

My pet peeve is Vim tutorials that start with "use hjkl to move around" instead of "use `set mouse=a` to turn on the mouse." In my opinion you need to make sure that you are very clearly disclaiming that you are teaching a harder way of doing things in exchange for incredibly small productivity gains that will be realized years in the future, if ever. (This is basically a copy-paste of previous comments I’ve made, I…

I just created this account to say that I agree wholeheartedly 100%. People always ask me, "How do I get better at Vim?" or say "Vim is too hard" etc, and I always say `set mouse=a` isn't just a gimmick, it's a _very_ useful feature...

Definitely a hurdle to overcome for beginners.

Although, it would help to show beginners exactly why abandoning the mouse will be better in the long run. It wouldn't do well for them to always rely on it in place of more efficient commands. Some people might always use the arrow keys instead of hjkl, for example, when hjkl will be better in the long run since they are on the home row.

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#18

Post by em500 »

MatthiasPortzel wrote: post #3

My pet peeve is Vim tutorials that start with "use hjkl to move around" instead of "use `set mouse=a` to turn on the mouse." In my opinion you need to make sure that you are very clearly disclaiming that you are teaching a harder way of doing things in exchange for incredibly small productivity gains that will be realized years in the future, if ever. (This is basically a copy-paste of previous comments I’ve made, I…

I use vi(m) more often on remote servers than locally, and in many cases I don't have much control what software is available. Mouse support is a crapshoot, so I never bothered with that.

Re: Show HN: I built an interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#20

Post by naillo »

dash2 wrote: post #15

I really want to like vim and I love some things about it, like the ability to move chunks about with only the keyboard. But so many things about it kill me. Like, why can't I hit right at the end of a line, and move to the next line? Who thinks that is a good idea? Also, why do I have to have a special mode to insert things? Having to change modes just seems so complex and unintuitive. And why does the help system n…

Learning new things is fun and you get used to it. I like the shift A command for moving to the end of the line (and go directly to insert mode). A good tip is to mainly stay in edit mode (and remap caps to escape and hammer that to go back to the default non insert mode whenever you're done).
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