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Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

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Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#11

Post by yoz-y »

chrismorgan wrote: post #5

One thing I consistently dislike in these efforts is the misappropriation of HTML tags with certain semantics. In this instance, the elements should not be articles: they’re not complete, standalone items. To be sure, as https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/sections.html#article... says, there’s subjectivity in deciding whether to use or , but I’m content to say that is wrong here. (Last time I looked into one of t…

Agreed. A good classless CSS file should work as a drop-in replacement for the native browser spreadsheet, it should definitely not try to invent it's own semantics.

Not that you can't do that, but if you do you are creating a CSS framework, not a stylesheet.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#12

Post by elicash »

duopixel wrote: post #6

Thank you! Brevity in code is underappreciated. People think it is about file size (and it partially is) but it is mostly about understanding what the code does so that you can extend it in the way that you want. This looks like a true foundation, unlike the namesake framework which is building on top of an existing buildings.

Another advantage is speed.

I did a proof-of-concept last week with MVP.css and it was so quickly put together that it was almost as convenient as from writing the content in a Google Doc (where I use borderless tables for the columns). Google Docs are usually my second step in the process, as I don't like to get feedback on sketches, but this might be it now. (My first step is that I sketch on receipt paper, it's the perfect width for mobile, super cheap, and can be as tall as you'd like for your design. Highly rec.)

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#13

Post by vladocar »

chrismorgan wrote: post #5

One thing I consistently dislike in these efforts is the misappropriation of HTML tags with certain semantics. In this instance, the elements should not be articles: they’re not complete, standalone items. To be sure, as https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/sections.html#article... says, there’s subjectivity in deciding whether to use or , but I’m content to say that is wrong here. (Last time I looked into one of t…

My point wasn't to replace the classic class grid, just to give basic HTML5 grid if necessary. You can always add any other CSS Framework for grid formatting. About and other HTML5 tags.. you can always personalise the code to your standards.

The grid is based on this: parent element {display: flex; flex-flow: row wrap} child element {flex:1}

Replace the parent element (container) with any HTML element, replace the child element with your preferred semantic element.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#14

Post by czechdeveloper »

jsiarto wrote: post #10

I thought CSS variables were still not fully supported enough to use in production. I know you can use a polyfill, but that seems to detract from the minimalist approach of these basic CSS frameworks: https://caniuse.com/#feat=css-variables

Based on your link, unless you support IE11, you should be fine with variables.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#15

Post by dhagz »

rsoto wrote: post #4

This feels weird. Classes exist for a reason. When I read the title, I thought about a kind of CSS reset, but what I'm seeing is also a template/grid framework? The weird part is that by wrapping an article within a section now I'm designing with columns (which btw, it seems there's no way to control them). And section > article turns out to be the suggested semantics for a blog. It's a nice effort, but what I'd look…

Yeah, if there were a way to have this without the grid stuff, I'd be all for it. But as it is, if I want to use this I'm stuck either ignoring tags (which I may want to use) to avoid the grid stuff, or I'm stuck using a grid system which isn't very controllable.

It's cool, but I'll stick to just writing my own, light-on-classes CSS.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#16

Post by globular-toast »

chrismorgan wrote: post #5

One thing I consistently dislike in these efforts is the misappropriation of HTML tags with certain semantics. In this instance, the elements should not be articles: they’re not complete, standalone items. To be sure, as https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/sections.html#article... says, there’s subjectivity in deciding whether to use or , but I’m content to say that is wrong here. (Last time I looked into one of t…

What is a card? For me that is purely stylistic and should live in the CSS alone. What does a card mean to a blind user?

This is all very easy when you're in the business of marking up documents. It turns out that the handful of element types defined in HTML are good enough for the vast majority of documents. It's quite rare to need to introduce a new tag. The difficulty starts when you're actually trying to create a "user interface" rather than a document.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#17

Post by torstenvl »

rsoto wrote: post #4

This feels weird. Classes exist for a reason. When I read the title, I thought about a kind of CSS reset, but what I'm seeing is also a template/grid framework? The weird part is that by wrapping an article within a section now I'm designing with columns (which btw, it seems there's no way to control them). And section > article turns out to be the suggested semantics for a blog. It's a nice effort, but what I'd look…

Seems like it would be awesome if HTML allowed you to set a default element
and then use
as a shorthand for
You could be "classless" to the extent of being semantic and succinct but without having to misappropriate elements.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#18

Post by jsiarto »

czechdeveloper wrote: post #14
jsiarto wrote: post #10

I thought CSS variables were still not fully supported enough to use in production. I know you can use a polyfill, but that seems to detract from the minimalist approach of these basic CSS frameworks: https://caniuse.com/#feat=css-variables

Based on your link, unless you support IE11, you should be fine with variables.

Good point. I just checked our company's web analytics and IE makes up about 2% of web traffic. So it's not dead yet, but I guess you can make a case for not supporting it.

Re: Show HN: Basic.css – Classless CSS Starter File

#19

Post by parhamn »

chrismorgan wrote: post #5

One thing I consistently dislike in these efforts is the misappropriation of HTML tags with certain semantics. In this instance, the elements should not be articles: they’re not complete, standalone items. To be sure, as https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/sections.html#article... says, there’s subjectivity in deciding whether to use or , but I’m content to say that is wrong here. (Last time I looked into one of t…

> One thing I consistently dislike in these efforts is the misappropriation of HTML tags with certain semantics.

As a counterpoint, I don't understand people pushing strict semantics in html elements where they're not really strictly defined or generally useful. Because of how loose the spec with how these things can be used (it it weren't it'd be like schema.org meets html) scraper and other UI tools don't really look for these things and are very flexible in parsing and identifying structure. It'd be foolish to implement a html parser for the general web that strictly expects articles to be in article tags.

Browser default CSS for these things mostly suck and are rarely used, in this case they're overriding them anyway. So why stay pseudo-semantic?

Besides general accessibility (which is tag attribute based mostly), its not obvious to me how this critique is repeated so often with such little value.

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