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Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

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Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#11

Post by snek »

sephoric wrote: post #2

Greetings fellow hackers! Author of Autumn here! I've been writing Autumn on and off for a few months, because there's something really satisfying and rewarding about automating something you do often, and then using that to automate more, and building upward in a cycle. That, plus I wanted to see how close to building a "legit IDE" I could get while completely faking it with WKWebViews. So Autumn kind of grew from t…

I feel like tools like this, which are intended to be used by developers for their own personal use, will have trouble succeeding if they aren't oss.

It would be nice if the documentation was available without having to download this, so people could see what the API is like.

It would also be super duper epic if this supported ESM properly.

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#12

Post by vemv »

I feel deeply aligned with the goals of this project, but unfortunately (for me) I think a given solution is not really hackable unless it's open source.

Depending on a given indivudual's opinions, availability, etc tends to be at odds with hackability.

At the same time I respect the author's desire to be rewarded for his work. Perhaps Patreon or the like could be a sustainable model. It's what the iTerm author uses (and quite a few other people who I do support).

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#13

Post by sephoric »

armitron wrote: post #9

Some more macOS window managers, all free and opensource: Spectacle, Slate, Phoenix (similar to Slate) And by far my personal favorite: Mjolnir which is extensible in Lua! Also, Hammerspoon its continuation. [1] https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle [2] https://github.com/jigish/slate [3] https://github.com/sdegutis/Phoenix [4] https://github.com/sdegutis/mjolnir/ [5] https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon

That is a great list! Autumn's API was inspired by a lot of these, so you may find some similarities, although I redesigned Autumn's API from the ground-up to be intuitive, simple and predictable, and so that it would lend a lot more easily to the built-in documentation viewer. Searching through online documentation was always one of my most sore points when using other programmable window managers, so that was one of my biggest focuses in Autumn, and one of the aspects of it I'm most happy with how it turned out. That, the developer console, and the integrated IDE (Monaco editor), are some ways that I felt I could take the next step up from earlier window managers.

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#14

Post by unforswearing »

armitron wrote: post #9

Some more macOS window managers, all free and opensource: Spectacle, Slate, Phoenix (similar to Slate) And by far my personal favorite: Mjolnir which is extensible in Lua! Also, Hammerspoon its continuation. [1] https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle [2] https://github.com/jigish/slate [3] https://github.com/sdegutis/Phoenix [4] https://github.com/sdegutis/mjolnir/ [5] https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon

chunkwm is another great option - https://github.com/koekeishiya/chunkwm

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#15

Post by sephoric »

vemv wrote: post #12

I feel deeply aligned with the goals of this project, but unfortunately (for me) I think a given solution is not really hackable unless it's open source. Depending on a given indivudual's opinions, availability, etc tends to be at odds with hackability. At the same time I respect the author's desire to be rewarded for his work. Perhaps Patreon or the like could be a sustainable model. It's what the iTerm author uses…

Patreon's model relies on monthly fees, which is something that philosophically I am against with software like Autumn, because it's not a continual service but a product that took a finite time to complete, so it should have a finite price. I also took counsel of someone who makes over $10k / month in monthly donations for open source work, who strongly recommends against it for personal products but encourages it for products that can benefit organizations.

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#16

Post by sephoric »

snek wrote: post #11
sephoric wrote: post #2

Greetings fellow hackers! Author of Autumn here! I've been writing Autumn on and off for a few months, because there's something really satisfying and rewarding about automating something you do often, and then using that to automate more, and building upward in a cycle. That, plus I wanted to see how close to building a "legit IDE" I could get while completely faking it with WKWebViews. So Autumn kind of grew from t…

I feel like tools like this, which are intended to be used by developers for their own personal use, will have trouble succeeding if they aren't oss. It would be nice if the documentation was available without having to download this, so people could see what the API is like. It would also be super duper epic if this supported ESM properly.

Regarding ESM (ECMAScript modules), I did implement require() and module.exports to the best of my ability, so it should be pretty easy to modularize your scripts. But it doesn't have a Node.js runtime so I didn't focus too much on node_modules support, although in theory many packages should work fine.

Regarding online documentation, good idea, thanks! I'll try to add that this week. Although, the app is so much more than its API, which is what makes it so unique, and I think if people just look at the API itself, they don't quite get to feel the experience of using Autumn to create their own automation workflows, which is what I'm most proud of about Autumn.

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#17

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

It's a neat API as far as window managers go. But I'm afraid I can't use it unless it is open source. Most WMs are open source, Xmonad, awesome, and i3 come to mind. With a little bit of hacking, you can setup Xmonad w/ XQuartz on OS X, but it is a bit buggy. I couldn't get xmobar to work, and keybinds don't work all the time, especially if XQuartz has an existing keybind for that particular key.

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#18

Post by badsectoracula »

sephoric wrote: post #13
armitron wrote: post #9

Some more macOS window managers, all free and opensource: Spectacle, Slate, Phoenix (similar to Slate) And by far my personal favorite: Mjolnir which is extensible in Lua! Also, Hammerspoon its continuation. [1] https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle [2] https://github.com/jigish/slate [3] https://github.com/sdegutis/Phoenix [4] https://github.com/sdegutis/mjolnir/ [5] https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon

That is a great list! Autumn's API was inspired by a lot of these, so you may find some similarities, although I redesigned Autumn's API from the ground-up to be intuitive, simple and predictable, and so that it would lend a lot more easily to the built-in documentation viewer. Searching through online documentation was always one of my most sore points when using other programmable window managers, so that was one o…

> Searching through online documentation was always one of my most sore points when using other programmable window managers

For me that is always one of the most sore points of almost every single desktop application, or at least those released this side of the millennium (older stuff tend to have actual offline documentation with them).

I don't use macOS these days (i dislike how Apple doesn't care about backwards compatibility and every time i upgrade macOS i have apps i bought break left and right - at this point almost nothing works on my oldest iMac), but thumbs up for providing your users documentation with the software they bought instead of sticking it to some wiki in a web server somewhere and hoping for the best (of course having the docs available on the web is fine and for some welcome, since they can check out what the app can do before even buying it, just not as a replacement for local docs you can pull up at any moment regardless of your internet connectivity - or even version of the software).

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#19

Post by sephoric »

sephoric wrote: post #6
zsprackett wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome throws up a warning on download. Autumn.zip is not commonly downloaded and may be dangerous. Discard. https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/webmasters/pV...

Whoa I got that too! I usually use Safari or Firefox (Google creeps me out) but I have tested the whole site in all three browsers, except this one button in Chrome I guess :D I'll check it out, thank you!

> Uncommonly downloaded is applied to any download that is new or has been modified/updated until Google has a chance to examine the download using multiple data centers. Once the download has been examined enough times, the warning will be removed.

So apparently we just have to wait until Google's servers decide my app isn't dangerous. Ironic considering I paid the $100 for Apple to notarize the app through Developer ID to remove that same warning from macOS when you first launch the app!

Re: Show HN: Autumn – A macOS window manager for (Type|Java)Script hackers

#20

Post by chris_st »

sephoric wrote: post #15
vemv wrote: post #12

I feel deeply aligned with the goals of this project, but unfortunately (for me) I think a given solution is not really hackable unless it's open source. Depending on a given indivudual's opinions, availability, etc tends to be at odds with hackability. At the same time I respect the author's desire to be rewarded for his work. Perhaps Patreon or the like could be a sustainable model. It's what the iTerm author uses…

Patreon's model relies on monthly fees, which is something that philosophically I am against with software like Autumn, because it's not a continual service but a product that took a finite time to complete, so it should have a finite price. I also took counsel of someone who makes over $10k / month in monthly donations for open source work, who strongly recommends against it for personal products but encourages it f…

Patreon has a per-accomplishment tier, used by (e.g.) the "Pepper and Carrot" webcomic[1] to fund each page individually. You might consider that model for features...

[1] https://www.peppercarrot.com (highly recommended if your tolerance for cute/silly is high :-)

Oh, and the author's patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/davidrevoy

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