Is it just me or is Clojure(script) becoming more and more syntax-heavy with each passing year?
Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
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Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#12Is it just me or is Clojure(script) becoming more and more syntax-heavy with each passing year?
I'm not sure what you mean. Clojure(Script) hasn't added any new syntax to the core language in a long, long time.
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#13Is it just me or is Clojure(script) becoming more and more syntax-heavy with each passing year?
Would you care to elaborate? Is there something specific you see in this project that caught your eye? One thing I noticed is the use of ligatures, which is becoming increasingly common as editors embrace Unicode more fully, but that's an editor/presentation feature, not something specific to the language. For example:
-> →
=> ⇒
>= ≥
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#14Is it just me or is Clojure(script) becoming more and more syntax-heavy with each passing year?
Would you care to elaborate? Is there something specific you see in this project that caught your eye? One thing I noticed is the use of ligatures, which is becoming increasingly common as editors embrace Unicode more fully, but that's an editor/presentation feature, not something specific to the language. For example: -> → => ⇒ >= ≥ I've seen an increasing number of people trying out Fira Code, which includes a nice…
The font in the screenshots with the ligatures is in fact Fira Code and the font in the REPL screenshots without ligatures is Ubuntu Mono.
I guess those could be considered additional syntax, but they're also completely optional and interchangeable with the corresponding, more Clojure-like keywords.
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you care to elaborate? Is there something specific you see in this project that caught your eye? One thing I noticed is the use of ligatures, which is becoming increasingly common as editors embrace Unicode more fully, but that's an editor/presentation feature, not something specific to the language. For example: -> → => ⇒ >= ≥ I've seen an increasing number of people trying out Fira Code, which includes a nice…
The font in the screenshots with the ligatures is in fact Fira Code and the font in the REPL screenshots without ligatures is Ubuntu Mono. I guess those could be considered additional syntax, but they're also completely optional and interchangeable with the corresponding, more Clojure-like keywords.
Yeah, I wouldn't consider them syntax, either. There's a lot we can do to make our coding environments easier to work in, and that's independent of the source code itself. I'm glad to see more exploration in this space.
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#16Is it just me or is Clojure(script) becoming more and more syntax-heavy with each passing year?
A subtle advantage of having a macro system is that you only pay the price of having unconventional syntax if you opt into it. You can keep the core language small and push weird syntax into macros, which can be imported like libraries.
The core language of Clojure is pretty small and simple compared with most other languages.
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#17Fellow Clojurians, I present to you, Ghostwheel. It makes the writing, reading, refactoring, testing, instrumentation and stubbing of function specs easy; introduces a concise syntax for inline fspec definitions; helps keep track of side effects; and makes general debugging almost fun, with full evaluation tracing of function I/O, local bindings and all threading macros. It's Alpha software and the Clojure port, whil…
I quite enjoyed the quote in the README, and, of course, the name.
Looks like a great project!
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#18Fellow Clojurians, I present to you, Ghostwheel. It makes the writing, reading, refactoring, testing, instrumentation and stubbing of function specs easy; introduces a concise syntax for inline fspec definitions; helps keep track of side effects; and makes general debugging almost fun, with full evaluation tracing of function I/O, local bindings and all threading macros. It's Alpha software and the Clojure port, whil…
I quite enjoyed the quote in the README, and, of course, the name. Looks like a great project!
That is certainly a fitting username. Thank you!
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#19Is it just me or is Clojure(script) becoming more and more syntax-heavy with each passing year?
A subtle advantage of having a macro system is that you only pay the price of having unconventional syntax if you opt into it. You can keep the core language small and push weird syntax into macros, which can be imported like libraries. The core language of Clojure is pretty small and simple compared with most other languages.
While that is true of the basic building blocks of the language, clojure.spec for example does have an overly verbose syntax (I would define it that way, even though it doesn't introduce new basic syntax elements) for function specs and that was one of the main motivations for writing Ghostwheel.
I wouldn't see this as some sort of development in Clojure though and I don't really know if that's what cutler meant anyway. Maybe he'll elaborate.
Re: Show HN: Ghostwheel – easy spec, side effect detection and tracing for Clojure
#20Fellow Clojurians, I present to you, Ghostwheel. It makes the writing, reading, refactoring, testing, instrumentation and stubbing of function specs easy; introduces a concise syntax for inline fspec definitions; helps keep track of side effects; and makes general debugging almost fun, with full evaluation tracing of function I/O, local bindings and all threading macros. It's Alpha software and the Clojure port, whil…
I am not sure about the Quick Fix thing in Cursive. Care to elaborate?
I wrote a post on the topic here https://yogthos.net/posts/2017-10-03-MovingForwardByLettingG...
Basically, the macro system makes it possible to extend the language in userspace via libraries. This allows the core language to stay small and focused, while different ideas can be tried out as usage patterns change.
The way Clojure is used today is very different from the way it was used a decade ago. However, the language itself has stay remarkably focused over time.