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Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

tokenspread.com

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Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#11

Post by gricardo99 »

gaetanrickter wrote: post #6

One way to do crypto arb is with crtypo companies executing in AI with financial markets datasets e.g 'Unpacking 3 Cryptocurrencies: Doc.ai, Cindicator & Starmine.ai' https://hackernoon.com/cryptocurrency-plays-artificial-intel... Information arbitrage can happen across markets, crytpo, stocks, CBOE and other assets.

To be perfectly honest, not trying to be snarky, both this comment and the article it links to seem like they are written by AI. To me it's buzz-word laden gibberish, I can't make any sense of it.

Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#12

Post by squashmode »

donpdonp wrote: post #9

This is a nicely designed site and some good data feeds. There is a big difference between spread, and arbitrage. Critically, any attempt to track arbitage needs to watch the orderbook rather than the last-trade-price. Ironically, the bid/ask spread on the same exchange isnt part of arbitrage. The difference between the total available bids on exchange A and the total available asks on exchange B (or vice-versa), is…

Agreed. I had run a small BTC arb program for a bit a number of years back. The exchanges were shoddy, there was a persistent bias in the arbitrage such that you ended up accumulating huge positions of BTC on one side, and lots of short cash on the other. Couple that with the difficulties of withdrawing cash from the system, fees, etc., it was not worth the risk. But this is not new.

What's pretty cool about this -- though it appears this site is not focused on it -- is the opportunity for full triangle arbitrages among the various crypto's, such that you may do, e.g., a BTC->ETH->LTC->BTC trade and wind up with more BTC than you started with.

Another point to consider; the big players have moved into this space, if you want to get into it you will need to be sure you're not at an informational disadvantage.

Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#13

Post by esalazar »

jatsign wrote: post #2

Crypto arbitrage always seems so tempting, but there's so many gotchas. This site seems to do a good job of weeding out some of the gotchas by focusing on coins with high market caps. Usually the "opportunities" in arbitrage that sites like this highlight ignore the fact that the targetted coin on one of the exchanges has abysmally low volume, so you'll be unlikely to be able to buy and sell it in time to take advant…

I think you can mitigate a lot of the time and volatility risk by trading on margin, i.e. buy coin on one side and sell on the other. You can still get called on either side but the risk should be smaller.

[edit] change bitcoin to coin

Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#14

Post by olegkikin »

squashmode wrote: post #12
donpdonp wrote: post #9

This is a nicely designed site and some good data feeds. There is a big difference between spread, and arbitrage. Critically, any attempt to track arbitage needs to watch the orderbook rather than the last-trade-price. Ironically, the bid/ask spread on the same exchange isnt part of arbitrage. The difference between the total available bids on exchange A and the total available asks on exchange B (or vice-versa), is…

Agreed. I had run a small BTC arb program for a bit a number of years back. The exchanges were shoddy, there was a persistent bias in the arbitrage such that you ended up accumulating huge positions of BTC on one side, and lots of short cash on the other. Couple that with the difficulties of withdrawing cash from the system, fees, etc., it was not worth the risk. But this is not new. What's pretty cool about this --…

I created a script years ago that looked for arbitrage opportunities on BTC-E, up to 4 trades deep, and it used the order books properly. I left it running, and was surprised that it actually found some arbitrage opportunities, around once every 3-4 minutes. Unfortunately the profits were always lower than 3-4 transaction fees of 0.2% each, so my dreams of getting rich quick got crushed.

I'm was actually surprised BTC-E didn't do something like that themselves, since the they don't have to pay any transaction fees, and they also had zero lag. It's like free money.

Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#15

Post by nnfy »

Given the efficiency of information exchange over the internet regarding btc prices on numerous exchanges, I'd venture to guess that these arbitrages only exist because of market barriers that average investors cannot efficiently surmount.

Example: a few years ago there was a difference of a few hundred dollars between U.S. and Chinese exchanges. But you couldn't really trade on the Chinese exchange unless you were or knew someone who was a Chinese citizen.

I haven't researched it, but my impression is that arbitrage is only indicative of market inneficiency. And a corrolary is that by the time you get into a position to take advantage of significant arbitrage, someone will likely have beaten you to it.

In other words, efficiency is antithetical to arbitrage. I welcome alternative perspectives.

Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#17

Post by brianpgordon »

nnfy wrote: post #15

Given the efficiency of information exchange over the internet regarding btc prices on numerous exchanges, I'd venture to guess that these arbitrages only exist because of market barriers that average investors cannot efficiently surmount. Example: a few years ago there was a difference of a few hundred dollars between U.S. and Chinese exchanges. But you couldn't really trade on the Chinese exchange unless you were o…

A hundred-dollar bill is lying on the ground. An economist walks past it. A friend asks: "Didn't you see the money there?" The economist replies: "I thought I saw something, but I must've imagined it. If there had been $100 on the ground, someone would've picked it up."

There were public order books years ago and there were still arb opportunities because the field was niche and people just hadn't written the software yet. In terms of your comment, the technical barrier was what "average investors cannot efficiently surmount." At this point the high-volume pairs are too crowded but I suspect that there are still opportunities to make money where technical complexity is still high (e.g. smart contracts).

Re: Show HN: Token Spread – Bitcoin/crypto spread tracking for arbitrage

#20

Post by mhluongo »

olegkikin wrote: post #14
squashmode wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I had run a small BTC arb program for a bit a number of years back. The exchanges were shoddy, there was a persistent bias in the arbitrage such that you ended up accumulating huge positions of BTC on one side, and lots of short cash on the other. Couple that with the difficulties of withdrawing cash from the system, fees, etc., it was not worth the risk. But this is not new. What's pretty cool about this --…

I created a script years ago that looked for arbitrage opportunities on BTC-E, up to 4 trades deep, and it used the order books properly. I left it running, and was surprised that it actually found some arbitrage opportunities, around once every 3-4 minutes. Unfortunately the profits were always lower than 3-4 transaction fees of 0.2% each, so my dreams of getting rich quick got crushed. I'm was actually surprised BT…

They almost certainly did. Crypto exchanges will give market makers and arb shops deals on exchange rates.
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