Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#1

Post by mjones » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 3:20 AM UTC

I've been programming for nearly 40 years and it is still my favorite thing to do. A while back I was reorganized out of the job I had been in for the previous eight years and found myself, for the first time in my career, without a job.

After taking a break and working on a non-technology passion project for several months I am now starting to get back into software development. I have read a bit here and there about alleged age discrimination and wonder if a) that's a real thing and b) if it is a real thing what can I do to minimize the adverse effect on my job search.

So, assuming the truth, more or less, of (b) I am trying to figure out how to present myself during the initial contact with potential employers. One one hand (hand one!) I'm tempted to try to avoid clues in my resume as to my age, but on the other hand I think that the right employer will see my age and experience as an asset.

Hand One might have the advantage of getting me in to a face-to-face interview where I believe I can show that I have desirable traits. But on the other hand I'm not sure I would want to work at a company where ageism is an issue.

Comments?

ps. I had more than one recruiter ask me for my birthdate: "Just Month and Day". I suppose they don't know that I know that it's obvious that my age could be easily determined (+- a bit) if armed with my Birthdate Month and Day, Name, and Location.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#2

Post by hawkice » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 3:41 AM UTC

My advice is to play up the experience, but play down some details of that experience. For instance, 40 years of COBOL and C++ has some signalling issues (not completely unreasonably, what with carpenters blaming shoddy tools). I'd probably not talk about the technical nature of the experience at all -- just say the industry it was for and what the tool was used for, and not name-dropping old technologies.

Also, outside of SF, the ageism is much much milder. I've had people who had the up/down control on me getting hired not know my age to within 15 years at the time they make that choice (and they consistently guessed _older_ than I am). But interviews in SF seem to bring this topic to the table almost immediately. YMMV.

In terms of being uniquely identifiable (and therefore having few secrets) in the job application process, this is essentially unavoidable. I wouldn't worry about it.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#3

Post by fsk » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 3:56 AM UTC

Don't give out SSN or Birthdate information until after an on-site interview when you're at the offer stage. Someone dishonest can use that information for identity theft.

I'm already starting to be concerned about age discrimination, and I'm only 40 years old! It's very disturbing when you go on an interview and you're the oldest person there by 10+ years.

The only way out is to start your own business. Do you have enough savings? If you do, consider trying to bootstrap your own thing instead of going back to being an employee.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#4

Post by err4nt » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:03 AM UTC

I"m just a young guy here, not an employer, but I can share how I view your age in a candid way that might help you put your best foot forward.

My parents, born in the mid-1950s are currently in the job market looking for work, and they claim they feel the ageism/discrimination but it completely baffles me as a younger person.

As a person who celebrated Y2K in public school, now in the workforce blazing my own trail: I personally wouldnt have any issue with your age whatsoever. I gauge people based on results and performance, and so if you're an old dog I dont need to teach you any new tricks, you're probably a pro already!

I would be a little intimidated by your age, and it would be humbling and awkward for me to feel like you were my subordinate, but I would cherish your insight and experience (and hopefully mature reasoning skills) and I believe you may have a lot to offer!

I still prepare resumes and cover letters for my parents as they hunt for jobs, and I wish I could encourage you as well.

Age != youth

Age != ability

Age == how many pages have been turned in the 'Book of You'

Best of luck as you put yourself out there!

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#5

Post by kls » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:08 AM UTC

Also, outside of SF, the ageism is much much milder

Agreed, it seems outside the cultural bubble of the Bay Area the entire technical workforce seems to be aging. I see fewer and fewer of the younger generations entering tech outside of a few markets like the Bay Area and Austin.

I have a theory, that it is due to the work force being more mobile, as well as the younger work force having less to tie them down. There was also, consolidation of the start-up markets and a lot of other markets lost ground while the Bay Area gained. I think this creates a natural draw for the younger portions of our workforce.

Most of the individuals I run across outside of a few specific markets are mid-30's to mid 50's and age seems to be a less relevant factor.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#6

Post by geuis » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:24 AM UTC

I dunno, this is kind of creeping up on me. I just turned 35 at the end of January and I'm in the middle of a job search because my last startup is shutting down. I've only done a handful of onsites so far and I've been a little worried about perceptions. I'm overweight and because of genetics, I'm much greyer in hair and beard than a lot of other people my age. So far it doesn't seem to be an issue, even when I'm talking to people younger than me. I'd say the issue definitely exists, but so far it hasn't been an issue for me personally.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#7

Post by austinwm » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:25 AM UTC

The coin has been in hand 2 all along.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#8

Post by fecak » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:25 AM UTC

Recruiter here. I would absolutely recommend you not include any obvious indicators of age on your resume, at least in many parts of the country. Graduation dates are not required, and perhaps your first few jobs can be eliminated from the resume. A resume doesn't have to be a complete biography.

With 40 years of programming (not sure how many were hobby vs paid), you are likely to raise questions as to how many more years you would need to work. You can trim the appearance of some years off to get in the door and avoid the possibility of discrimination.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#9

Post by poppup » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:29 AM UTC

err4nt wrote: post #4

I"m just a young guy here, not an employer, but I can share how I view your age in a candid way that might help you put your best foot forward. My parents, born in the mid-1950s are currently in the job market looking for work, and they claim they feel the ageism/discrimination but it completely baffles me as a younger person. As a person who celebrated Y2K in public school, now in the workforce blazing my own trail:…

I enjoyed reading your encouraging words. I know it's not encouraged to post 1 up comments, so I have more to add, but before I do, I wanted to pass along that it's nice to hear how supportive you are with regard to your parents and others.

I agree with your comment and I think the thought of ageism is what is intimidating. There is nothing that cannot be accomplished when a person sets their mind to it, regardless of age, but there is a time and energy cost. Young people have more energy, so more effort is required on the part of an older person to appear energetic and desirable. I am 46 and have worked in five different careers. Experience can be demonstrated and comes across as impressive if it is concise and on point, regardless of age. Being both energetic and concise is an art form. But I highly recommend it as a strategy when seeking employment.

Re: Ask HN: Should I Downplay My Age?

#10

Post by sysk » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 4:29 AM UTC

Have you considered freelancing or running a small consulting business?

I admit that if I was faced with the opportunity of hiring someone a lot older and experienced than me I'd have two immediate thoughts: "This guy would be a great asset, we need him" and "I think I'd be way too intimidated and nervous being his boss, can't do it".

Doing consulting work solves the second question since it changes the boss-employee dynamic to a more business-to-business like one.

Now, I am not in a position to hire anyone so take my introspection with a grain of salt.