Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#1

Post by wyw » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 4:42 PM UTC

I have a sense that I'm one of these people. I'm risk-averse, perhaps anxious by nature, and I like the structure that corporate entities provide, despite being well aware of how challenging it can be to exist and thrive within that structure at times; and, despite what PG writes in "You weren't meant to have a boss":

http://paulgraham.com/boss.html

It's appropriate, given his audience, that most of what PG writes is very encouraging of the idea that people should just get out there and get things going by themselves.

But, not being familiar with all of his essays, I wonder if someone could point to any that are a little bit more ambivalent about the whole endeavor.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#2

Post by rokhayakebe » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 4:48 PM UTC

That would be a rather negative essay and it would not be any productive. Instead of talking about people who should not, we can keep talking about people who should or skills to acquire prior to starting a startup.

In the end, no one knows.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#3

Post by mfalcon » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 4:48 PM UTC

Something like this?: http://www.paulgraham.com/notnot.html

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#4

Post by wyw » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 4:55 PM UTC

mfalcon wrote: post #3

Something like this?: http://www.paulgraham.com/notnot.html

Yes. Something exactly like that. Thanks.

One thing I disagree with in the article is the premise that people get real jobs because "it's the default thing to do". While that may be true, it's also true that a regular job is simply the most likely way that you are going to make a secure living over the long run since most startups fail.

If your job "fails", you can always get another one and make close to what you were making before. And especially if you work in tech, nothing about what has happened in the economy recently has really changed this reality.

But if your startup fails your next startup is also likely to fail - less likely than the first time perhaps, but still more likely than not.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#5

Post by icey » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 5:14 PM UTC

You know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to do a startup.

You'll find that a lot of people here have something crazy in their genetics that makes them know that they have to do a startup. Like, they could be really happy doing whatever they're doing today, but they'll never stop thinking about how they are going to do their startup. Those are the people that pg is talking to in his essays.

If you ask me, it's about doing what makes you happy. If you prefer to have a job at an existing company, or if you're risk averse, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#6

Post by wyw » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 5:28 PM UTC

icey wrote: post #5

You know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to do a startup. You'll find that a lot of people here have something crazy in their genetics that makes them know that they have to do a startup. Like, they could be really happy doing whatever they're doing today, but they'll never stop thinking about how they are going to do their startup. Those are the people that pg is talking to in his essays. If you…

I appreciate that you say that because I do find it troubling that some people here seem to suggest that unless you are willing to take the kinds of risks involved in doing a startup, you are not really living or actualizing your potential.

It's the attitude that if you work in a company you are just a wage slave and a drone.

It's an attitude that expresses a value system which places a premium on achievement and 'Success' and is not so different from the value system of certain people inside the corporate world who are desperately clawing their way up the ladder to prove something to their peers, their neighbors or themselves.

I don't begrudge someone their ambition to do that if they want to but what I do resent is when someone tries to make me feel that my choices are somehow less if I'm not willing to 'step up'. It all comes down to what you value more.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#7

Post by timwiseman » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 5:28 PM UTC

icey wrote: post #5

You know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to do a startup. You'll find that a lot of people here have something crazy in their genetics that makes them know that they have to do a startup. Like, they could be really happy doing whatever they're doing today, but they'll never stop thinking about how they are going to do their startup. Those are the people that pg is talking to in his essays. If you…

Excellent points. I have tremendous respect for start up founders, even those who fail. But for many people, it is simply not the right decision.

This is particularly true for people that value stability highly. This could come from simply desiring it personally, or having a compelling reason (such as family commitments) to seek stability.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#8

Post by benatkin » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 5:54 PM UTC

wyw wrote: post #4

mfalcon wrote: post #3

Something like this?: http://www.paulgraham.com/notnot.html

Yes. Something exactly like that. Thanks. One thing I disagree with in the article is the premise that people get real jobs because "it's the default thing to do". While that may be true, it's also true that a regular job is simply the most likely way that you are going to make a secure living over the long run since most startups fail. If your job "fails", you can always get another one and make close to what you we…

One thing you neglected to mention: if your startup fails, you can use your startup experience to help you get a job.

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#9

Post by skmurphy » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 7:17 PM UTC

Although I had posted it earlier and been trashed for it I will point to "We Don't Encourage Individuals to Form Startups" at http://www.skmurphy.com/blog/2008/12/04/we-dont-encourage-in...

My thesis is that most entrepreneurship is involuntary (either due to fundamental personality characteristics or lack of opportunity to do anything else). If you like the structure corporations provide, embrace it. My only caveat is that most have done away with a commitment to lifetime employment, give some thought to what you might do if you were not able to continue to work in a corporation. I think the best book on the psychology of entrepreneurship is "You Have to Be a Little Crazy" by Barry Moltz http://www.amazon.com/You-Need-Be-Little-Crazy/dp/079318018X... who concludes:

"Entrepreneurs start businesses because..they have no choice. Passion and energy drive them on good days and sustain them on bad days."

Re: Ask HN: Has PG written any essays about "people who shouldn't do startups"?

#10

Post by shiro » Wed, Aug 19, 2009, 7:27 PM UTC

wyw wrote: post #6

icey wrote: post #5

You know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to do a startup. You'll find that a lot of people here have something crazy in their genetics that makes them know that they have to do a startup. Like, they could be really happy doing whatever they're doing today, but they'll never stop thinking about how they are going to do their startup. Those are the people that pg is talking to in his essays. If you…

I appreciate that you say that because I do find it troubling that some people here seem to suggest that unless you are willing to take the kinds of risks involved in doing a startup, you are not really living or actualizing your potential. It's the attitude that if you work in a company you are just a wage slave and a drone. It's an attitude that expresses a value system which places a premium on achievement and 'Su…

Robustness, and potential of evolution, of a society relies on its diversity, I think. Tech start-ups stand on the huge body of relatively risk-free infrastructure provided by traditional structured organizations. Although such structure may change from the current way big corporations run, there will always be more people needed to work for such stable infrastructure than trying new things on top of it.

And people are different from each other. Some can draw their potential by taking risks and trying new things. Some can draw theirs by maintaining and gradually improving the existing organization. Some even want to produce things that don't pay their bills (e.g. most artists) so the need day jobs, but they are roots and trunk of rich culture.

PG doesn't say explicitly, but I think his essays aim at very specific type of people, especially those who aren't risk-averse type but are afraid of taking risks because they're educated so.

If you're bothered by those who look down you, you can just remind yourself that their success actually relies on you.